When the Euro was weak, europeans blamed the USA, now that it is strong, the same...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by crgarcia, Nov 11, 2007.

  1. Um, you just proved my point. Simply put, it goes both ways, as you have just amply demonstrated.:cool:
     
    #51     Nov 19, 2007
  2. IluvVol

    IluvVol

    Billions from Americans? Well you should first pay your debts to the UN that your country has amassed (in contrast to any other industrialized nation) and you including the other millions of households should try to pay off your household debt that you live a comfortable live with but just on borrowed time. Foreigners such as the Chinese, Japanese, and many Europeans that you seemingly all look down to and treat as second-class citizens (apparent through your attitudes as the world's police man) are lending and financing your lavish and under normal circumstances unaffordable life styles. Maybe the time will come the rest of the world will be less willing to extend loands to you.

    After you consider ALL that you can start telling us how you pay billions to Africa. But please dont tell us it is your sincere hearts and generosity that goes beyond description that supported countries financially throughout ANY time of history. Please dont "omit" it was political interests, oil interests and the like that opened your generous hearts to give.

    I dont claim the US is the ONLY country that "invests" (=donates) funds out of selfish motivations but the US is world champion in masking those interests and marketing themselves as generous givers. I guess what got this discussion heated up is a) non-Americans who are sick of those marketing-shennanigans and pretentious generosity and b) totally mis-informed Americans who still believe the US helped-rebuild Germany, France, UK after WWII because they felt "connected" to those nations due to their immigrant base. Or maybe some of those posters still believe the world outside the US today would be in bondage and a miserable state of affairs without US aid. Wake up dudes!!! For example, China would do as well as it does today without a single investment by the US or US consumers buying cheap Chinese products. The rest of the world would happily fill the void.

    Take it for what it really is: Capitalism at work, investments made, resturns reaped. Hope we can all agree on this and be truthful.

     
    #52     Nov 20, 2007
  3. ssmegner

    ssmegner

    Show me one country that refused the help. If we are as corrupt as you claim, the leaders in the reciving countries are just as corrupt for participating.
     
    #53     Nov 20, 2007
  4. IluvVol

    IluvVol

    Are you talking to me in regards to my response?

    a) Show me one country that refused the help.
    -> Not sure why you ask that, it never appeared in my response and I never claimed that. So, not sure where you try to get with this.

    b) If we are as corrupt as you claim, the leaders in the reciving countries are just as corrupt for participating.
    -> Nicaragua, Afghanistan (80s), numerous African countries,....the list goes on. But also here I dont get your point. Nobody claimed the US is corrupt, I said the US is good at masking its true intentions. This is very different from being corrupt. Also, the claim that if a country is corrupt and giving the receivers would also be corrupt is not necessarily true and cannot be proven.

    Not sure what you actually want to say at least not in a meaningful sense. Why dont you say what you really want to say. Then everybody gets to benefit from this discussions not just those who seem to be able to decypher suggestions, hints, twisted meanings.
     
    #54     Nov 20, 2007
  5. Damn right.
     
    #55     Nov 20, 2007
  6. America has come a long way from Wilsonian politics until now. Back then, it was supposed to be a model of democracy and righteousness. Today ...
     
    #56     Nov 20, 2007
  7. Reminds me of Otto from A Fish Called Wanda.

     
    #57     Nov 20, 2007
  8. Wilt

    Wilt

    How is that dcraig?
     
    #58     Nov 21, 2007
  9. thn5625

    thn5625

    I love China's success but you do not know macroeconomics well if you think China's long term success can be maximized without the U.S. Well, most of the population including very educated people just like yourself do not truly understand it--

    What we are seeing around the globe is a movement toward parity between global economies. Free trade allows once weak nations to be stronger if they accept free trade and capitalism. In this global economy there will always be stronger players and weaker players but their output would be "maximized" through increased national production that can only result from global trade.

    Now, if China trades solely with Europe then it isnt maximizing its productive capacity. If China includes the US then China can increase its production from say, 1 to 3. This is basically what all nations, incl. the US will find. Each nation maximizes its production via cooperation with the other-a very basic game theory concept.

    Another point--The heart of capitalism is in the heart of every individual in this world. All of us want to better ourselves. However, no country in the world has a better capitalistic foundation than the US. Capitalism is ingrained in us culturally but the strongest indication is that it is embedded in our legal infrastructure since the country's birth. The EU became b/c it imitated the US federal/state system. It works like a charm in the US but the EU will have its issues. So will China but you wont see this happening until the long run(LR)-say 10-30 years from now.

    My last point: We are fooled in the short run (similar to being fooled by randomness) by the current global movement toward parity of the world ecoomies-all of what is happening has been explained in macroeconomic theory. It does seem the US is losing ground. However, it wont lose too much ground. China and the EU is gaining ground but it doesnt mean they will reach stellar heights. If you take a snapshot of the world then yes it does seem very negative for the US. Everyone gets fooled by short term patterns and we mistakenly believe this will carry on through the long term future.

    In the long run you will see a strong US as well as a strong EU and a strong China. However, the US will probably be the most stable nation. It will always be rich in resources both human and natural. Our infrastructure will keep the engine in tune. The EU will have to continue to please its nations and China will still have to do away with its centralized infrastructure before it can sustain its dominance.

    Caveat: This is a very macro, long term view of the global economy of at least 12-25 years.
     
    #59     Nov 24, 2007
  10. Cesko

    Cesko

    One of the best posts I have read lately.
     
    #60     Nov 24, 2007