When is options scalping manipulative trading?

Discussion in 'Options' started by arizonadreamer, Oct 12, 2022.

  1. Since when is scalping forbidden? :) It isn't, IMO.
     
    #11     Oct 13, 2022
  2. cesfx

    cesfx

    I am intrigued by your method.

    I am also afraid I might be using the same broker, when you say that you used them for long time and they are not answering your specific questions.
    There is one, famous for its funny customer service. But I won't guess shame.


     
    #12     Oct 13, 2022
  3. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    As with these types of posts the information is super unclear.

    is your broker giving you a problem?



     
    #13     Oct 13, 2022
  4. Stochastix: The only thing they offered was the text I posted. I will keep in mind the FINRA question if I reinitiate discussion on this with them.



    ETJ: Do you have a link to the details regarding this derived order rule? All the major exchanges are quoting these contracts.



    MW: Yes, it seems I did provide liquidity. Perhaps this is the issue. Maybe the market makers complained to my broker that I was cutting in on their business? All of those small trades add up.



    Vanzandt: Good perspective. They have received an unbelievable amount in commissions from me. Good point about keeping the account open if I switch brokers.



    Rbigsby: The at the money and near the money strikes had volume. These had little volume and I accounted for more than half of that volume. I don’t know who was at the opposite side of the trades. Maybe bots?



    The Dawn: Stay tuned. For now, all I can say is that it is not one of the smaller outfits out there.



    Earth_imperator: That’s what I thought but I was informed that this particular way of trading (going in and out of a static spread) could be seen as taking advantage of liquidity and price improvement.



    Cesfx: Yes, don’t guess but stay tuned. :) Customer service is usually good but when it comes to this topic they are very cryptic. Hence, the reason I have come out of my 10+ year hibernation from Elite Trader to try to get some answers.



    Newwurldmn: I thought I was fairly clear and would need specific questions to clear up wasn’t clear. :) Yes, it is a problem because I don’t know what I need to do to avoid this situation in the future.
     
    #14     Oct 13, 2022
    earth_imperator, shuraver and cesfx like this.
  5. Gambit

    Gambit

    Could you please share what the derived order rule is?
     
    #15     Oct 17, 2022
  6. To quote Smokey Robinson - I second that emotion. :)
     
    #16     Oct 18, 2022
  7. I understand you don't want to tell us who is the broker. I understand you don't want to mention the option you were scalping. But please tell us *exactly* what your broker told you. Otherwise it is a complete waste of time.
     
    #17     Oct 18, 2022
  8. Arturo100:

    I thought I was clear but for clarification, here you go:

    "The above account is trading thinly traded options in a manner that could be viewed as taking advantage of liquidity and price improvements. The client needs to modify their trading behavior to not have the appearance of taking advantage of liquidity / price improvements."

    I was merely entering my orders within the spread with at very high success rate for this particular underlying. I had done the same for other underlyings countless times with no issues.
     
    #18     Oct 18, 2022
    Gambit likes this.
  9. Gambit

    Gambit

    It's the thin market that's the issue I'm guessing.
     
    #19     Oct 18, 2022
  10. Well, the at the money'ish contracts had volume in the thousands today and OTMs had volume in excess of 500, all within a spread differential between the bid and ask of 5 or 6 cents. Where is the "thinness" and how do you determine what is thin and what is not? It's not like Autozone (AZO) at .0 x 4.80. If they can say this is "thinly traded" then anything can be called thinly traded. Kind of like holding calls in the NFL. :) And even if true, what specific rule would this violate?
     
    #20     Oct 18, 2022
    earth_imperator likes this.