What's your experience in the industry?

Discussion in 'Options' started by Aquarians, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. What's your experience in the industry working with / for a company managing more than $10M in capital? More precisely I'm interested in something, given my =~ 10 years job for a hedge fund that managed some $1B at a time (now it's down to half and it's software business isn't doing great either).

    I've been struggling in the last 12 years (including the last two since I no longer work in finance), to understand how real money are made and come up with if not over-the-top money making strategies, at least with highly profitable ones. Problem's I got ZERO support from my software developer colleagues, my teamleaders, project and product managers, their managers managers and the CEO. At best nobody gave a fuck, at worst they tried to foul me (as in football).

    So in 10 years working for various teams and projects at the same umbrella company, I never got the tiniest drop of support in what I saw as the uttermost important thing in this business: making money. I DID ask for approval on such R&D projects, to no avail. Colleagues didn't care, teamleader was afraid, project manager mocked me, product manager threatened me and CEO ignored me. So I did what I could and what creative developers always do when they're blocked from thinking at work (the general consensus in anyone except me seemed to be "we are here to work, not to think"). I worked at home. Which makes 9 hours + additional 2, 3, sometimes 12 (in weekends). Overall if you count just week days I think I manage to score an average of 12.

    Eventually I realized I'm getting closer and closer to becoming profitable as a money amplifier and at the same time I noticed the contract I was forced to sign (and threatened with firing when I initially refused to sign it as all the other drones), which stated that albeit they assume no responsibility for training or guidance, they still own anything that I may come up with and proves profitable, be it during or outside work hours. (That has an expiration time of 2 years for claiming it so I'm 100% safe now but nevertheless).

    Is this not just common, is this ubiquitous?

    I mean like, after 10 years of *financial* work experience, 15+ in general and coming back to finance, being a demonstrated high-achiever aiming (as in effort compared to the vast average), I can't even get an interview in 99% of the finance job posts I see and anyways, given what I know about the industry, I fail 100% of the offers.

    This is just a rant and I am fully aware if I'll eventually eat, it's gonna be entirely by my own hunting skills. Just curious if I'm like an outlier and everyone else (like at least 90%) are a fulminating success who got noticed early and in fact they didn't even had to coze they were already rocking on their own anyways.
  2. tommcginnis


    I worked in a similar environment -- *tremendous* job, pathological office.

    I found this very useful:


    When I finally got the ax (for pointing out the idiocy of a $2.3B proposal then ended in felony charges for the higher ups nearly *into* the Governor's Office), and started trading, I discovered that when I did dumb stuff, I couldn't hide from it, and when I invented cool shit, nobody could take it away, berate me, demote me, or threaten me with termination.

    You are *not* alone. The Office, Office Space, and so, so many others -- private sector, public sector..... My X quit the Indiana FannyMae in 2006, screaming a mournful "We're doommmmmed! It's a disasssssterrrrrrrr!" Same thing. Screwed/beaten-on for doing a good (public/fiduciary) job.

    Be cool.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
    TreeFrogTrader and speedo like this.
  3. Junky


    I was on the sell-side and I saw time and time again how it's a terrible place to work. The paychecks are good (or at least can be if you're in the right role) but that's about it. Over 13 years I watched a great business, great traders and good people devolve into what is now a shell of what it was before. We had better trading technology and people working on implementing strategies five years ago than we do now.

    In my case this was mostly a function of a lot of the things OP described. Time that was spent on trading and developing tools turned into time spent on political infighting and gamesmanship. Bad management decisions piled upon bad decision and ultimately they drive away the good people, pay the bad ones too much, realize its all wrong and start everything over again from the ground up. Not to mention I've seen far too many good people sold down the river for the benefit of those at the top of the food chain. That is a story for another time though...
    iprome, alex314159 and tommcginnis like this.
  4. DeltaRisk


    The edges available are incredibly difficult to replicate due to relationships and capital.
    ironchef likes this.
  5. Handle123


    Case of too many Chiefs and not enough Indians and all are too afraid to make waves or say anything to anyone and lose credit.

    Perhaps am thinking wrong and a Hedge fund is more different than any other business, but shouldn't it be like a Christmas tree? The top make the decisions and strats and remainder are there to implement and support? I suppose many would see it as a dictatorship, but there are owners on the line to do well or they out of business. And those who don't support the business get canned.

    Or is it cause there are so many Hedge funds and the best grabbed all the best support staffers, way too many unstaffed positions cause lack of good help?
    DeltaRisk likes this.
  6. traider


    Since you worked 10Y at a hedge fund, you should have a good idea of what works and what doesn't. What's stopping you from trading and making some serious dough? Unless your fund is based on HFT and superior infra but it doesn't sound like it from your post.
  7. Maybe it’s just me and my opinion. But you seem to be blaming everyone but yourself.

    No one teach you.. then go Fing learn the hard way. Books. You tube. Reading. More research. Back testing ideas.

    Seems like you could learn a lot from losing that much money!!! Shot I’m sorry but I wouldn’t hire you. Who would hire a loser in finance???

    I wanted to learn stock trading. Watched stocks for a year and jumped in. Learned from my mistakes and still do everyday.

    Here’s a free tip.. I ran three systems at once for one year. I saw what worked and didn’t. That’s triple the learning in 1/3 rd the time. There you go

    Here’s another. Warren buffet says to buy SP500 and short term treasuries. There. The richest stock player just gave you all the info you need. Go pick up boggles book to find the exact math on SP500 beating you hedge fund managers that think you can outperform only to fail. Look at his 10 year bet with SP500 and guess who’s winning.

    Sounds like you need to stick to SP500.. and walk away
  8. sle


    There are some funds like that, true, like Pershing Square. Then there are funds where you have a multitude of smaller PM groups, like Millennium or SAC (sorry, Point 72). Then there are funds that are these large aggregations of specialized groups, like Bridgewater. It's hard to generalize.

    Imagine this. You're working on a Formula 1 team, specializing on the front differential. You are the best specialist out there. Do you think you will know anything about the actual driving process and what makes a successful race team (or even how to build a successful race car)?
    murray t turtle and Junky like this.
  9. JackRab


    Bigger isn't necessarily better IMO.

    At large hedgefunds that basically manage other people's money, the principal-agent problem will arise. Everyone might start to think in their own little alleyway and don't care about the rest.

    If you're at a smaller firm, with only or mostly their own money involved... everybody is more inclined to share and get the firm making money for all.

    We went from 5-10M to 300M and the environment collapsed. Too many people on the wrong positions... people stopped caring and sharing... no good. And that was no outside funds.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
    iprome likes this.
  10. Perhaps you should re-read my post.

    1) I never said I didn't learn by myself. To the point where now I'm slightly profitable and hope to get better.
    2) You missed the part about giving up intellectual property. So they DON'T teach me anything, DON'T support me to do my own learning DURING WORK HOURS, but got the nerve to claim ownership on something that I do on my own time.

    A role like that while "working in finance" is similar to this comedy sketch where guy "works in aviation" because he's a cashier at the airport's Mac Donald's:

    I can do developer jobs (that pay better actually) in a heckton of places outside finance that DON'T TEACH ME FINANCE, and they don't claim ownership over the finance that I do at home.
    #10     Jan 19, 2018