What's up with recent margin changes: YM requires more margin than ES now

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by aeliodon, Nov 20, 2008.

  1. current margin for initiation:

    ES: 6200

    YM: 6800

    NQ: 4000

    Why does ES have higher margin than YM if it has a much higher ATR in measured in dollar terms?

    What are the chances of the margin going even higher?
  2. Saw that... I toyed with a YM system a few months ago. Glad my ES systems work better!

    I would not do business with a broker who plopped a margin in front of me and said 'take it or leave it.' I would smack him in the face with his own margin and then ram it up his ass. My broker asked ME what I would like for a margin. After lowballing him, we settled on a competitive intraday rate.

    Only newbies and suckers fall for the low power offered by IB and most retail brokers. Unless you don't know what you are doing, and should be working at McDs instead of trading, there is no reason to trade e-minis with a margin more than $500.

    My broker actually sent me an email informing me of the 'necessity to raise margins' and I replied to them that they could kiss my ass and my grand per month in commissions goodbye in the same breath if they failed to put my margin back. Funny, it was back down before market open the next day... I doubt IB would have been that responsive, but the smaller brokers know they must stay competitive to keep medium and large-sized retail clients.

    And yes, I have already considered leasing a seat to lower commissions. I like retail better, as long as the broker values your business, you have the upper hand. With a seat, there is no wiggle room between you and the exchange, and they are not nice people to deal with if something goes wrong. Not worth it. I will stay retail, where I have a chance to bullshit the order desk girl to get what I want. They like my jokes, go figure.
  3. kxvid


    It ridiculous especially when you consider how many ticks that would be. Small accounts get no respect having to post insane margin and having day trading restrictions.
  4. joemiami

    joemiami Guest

    IB sucks when it comes to margins for index futures. My broker when I trade ES is Openecry...they raised their margins like many other brokers due to the crazy volatility.. but its still only about $965.00 per contract right now. I dont use the full margin( I use approx $2500.00 margin) still a lil risky but Im very experienced with this setup, so it works for me.

    People who complain about IB margin should wake up and look for another broker ...there are many out their.... Mirus, Velocity, etc, with better margins and better service..... even during these volatile times.

  5. A grand per month commissions yet one claims to trade 1000 es at a time ?

    It looks like the pathological liars are back in full force tonight.
  6. Lucrum


    Personally I think the CME group has over done it with the performance bond increases. As a percentage of the underlying contracts value they're at
    ES-16%, YM-18% and NQ-19%.
    That's approaching SSF margin.
    Compared to average daily dollar range. Margins are NQ-2.53 x daily range, ES-2.1 and YM-2.60.
    I can certainly understand the "need" for some increase with volatility. But it seems to me at some point the performance bonds need to start reflecting the much smaller contract values.

    Corn for example is $2025 initial or about 11% of the contracts current value. Or about 2.0 x daily dollar range.
  7. Thinkorswim charges $6187.00 minimum margin account balance at all times or else they will liquidate your positions. I'm completely new to futures, and just sticking to paperMoney on thinkorswim until I can consistently make money, but I wondering what are the top recommended brokers for trading ES?
  8. I guess you don't remember the crisis that almost put Velocity out of business earlier in the year. Would it have made a difference what your day trade margin was if the company was gone? LOL.

    Today I watched the ES move 30 handles down in 9 minutes (that included 12 handles in 1 minute), then 17 back up in 3 minutes. Traders who think they require small margin won't survive this volatility. It only takes a couple of moves to wipe the small margin out. But don't take my word for it.

  9. The funniest part is reading the same aliases bitching in one thread about the over-leveraged financial system, while bitching in another thread about not having 100:1 leverage for their trades.
  10. I don't like IB's futures margins even though I trade pretty conservatively for my account size anyway. But I stay with them because I believe my account is safer there than it would be with one of the smaller firms such as Global or Velocity.

    Anybody feel they have a broker that's safer from bankruptcy than IB but with significantly better margins, I'd love to hear your case.
    #10     Nov 24, 2008