what's the deal with collective2?

Discussion in 'Educational Resources' started by IronFist, Dec 17, 2008.

  1. No, Ninja sends a report of what the bid/ask was at the time the prder was filled and C2 reports the bid if its a sell and the ask if its a buy. Two words: Think slippage and lots of it.

    Also, if you have a multi broker account, Ninja can send SIM trades.
     
    #41     Dec 26, 2008
  2. hmmm..., just for curiosity, any idea why on earth doesn't NT report the actual fill?

    p.s.
    sending Sim trades shows how worthless the whole C2 system is! So there is no way for one to know if a system is Sim fed or True fill fed?
     
    #42     Dec 26, 2008
  3. NT doesn't want to report the actual fills, because they would not necessarily be representive of what an auot-trader following the system would get, so they fill at bid-ask spread as if it were a market order.

    The only way for you to learn if the system is live or Sim is to contact the developer. Some developers do explain in the system description whther the fills are live or Sim, but these are the rare ones, so it's safe to assume most of the systems are trading Sim.
     
    #43     Dec 26, 2008
  4. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    Nope. If you click on the Yes, Show me real fills from subscriber broker accounts, and the system is autotraded, it shows the real fills, otherwise it is hypothetical. (which is good for testing purposes)
     
    #44     Dec 26, 2008
  5. You are correct; however, those are trades by subscribers, not the developer. You have no clue if the developer is trading live or in sim. And if you look at enough of those subscriber trades, you will see different fills for seemingly the same trade.

    As a result, those trades, too, must be viewed as hypothetical because there is no assurance they can be matched by another autotrading subscriber.

    Unfortunately, C2 doesn't provide any data on how many paid subscibers each system has. That would be a good indicator to see if subscribers were making money autotrading these systems.
     
    #45     Dec 26, 2008
  6. I want to try the split-strike conversion system as I hear it contains little if any draw downs.
     
    #46     Dec 26, 2008
  7. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    Not exactly. Those fills are the AVERAGED autotrade fills. Thus if a vendor has 5 subscribers, it shows a fill as all 5 subscribers fills averaged. This has 2 problems:

    1. It slows down the feedback for the vendor on the fill, and even changes the value of it as the reports are coming back. So the vendor first sees a value close to what he saw on his broker's ticker, than a few minutes later that fill changes to the averaged subscriber fill. In a fast moving market the difference could be quite big and the vendor not even aware of the eventual filled price until it got corrected. Can take about 2-3 minutes.

    2. More subscribers a vendor has, the bigger the chance that 1-2 of them have a slow broker and inadequate fill, thus screwing up the average on the fill.

    Also according to Matthew if a system has an autotrader, than those trades are displayed on the system's mainpage, which is unfortunate. This way one can not compare theoretical and real fills. The main page should only show theoretical fills by the C2 engine, and the real fills can be still accessed by clicking on the Show me real fills button...

    Oh yes, there is another difference between real and hypothetical fills, and that is touch and/or trading through. For the hypotethical fill a touch of the price is sufficient, for real trades the price usually has to trade through...

    You are correct that we don't know if the vendor himself trades the system or not and with what kind of fills, but it is not that relevant from the subscriber's POV as fills goes...
     
    #47     Dec 26, 2008
  8. Many good replies here.

    The bottom line for me is C2 is a good concept, but the platform for executing that concept, namely, C2, is deeply flawed.

    C2 is a neophyte with lots of growing pains compared to Futures Truth.
     
    #48     Dec 26, 2008
  9. Are there any other sites providing the same concept but better facilitated and with less of these problems that C2 has?
    I like very much to participate in one where my actual fills would be recorded and reported.
    Do any of these systems have any worthwhile followings too? I doubt very much otherwise C2 would have shown the number of subscriptions which would have been very revealing...

    Thanks RolexT. for the useful responses.
     
    #49     Dec 27, 2008
  10. YW.

    Many people have asked C2 to publish the number of active subscribers to the system profiles, but that has fallen on deaf ears. I don't know why.

    Good developers earn between $10,000 and $15,000 per month. The very best (a handful) earn over $20,000 per month.

    Look, you have nothing to lose by trying C2 for a few trades and comparing your results with their posts. I understand TradeStation reports accurate fills, but I'm not speaking from experience. Best to email Matthew and ask him if there is any way to get your actual fills reported.

    FuturesTruth is a top flight outfit but I don't know if a discretionary method would work under their guidelines. They are geared to automated trading systems.
     
    #50     Dec 28, 2008