What's better, systematic or discretionary?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by sle, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. Systematic all the way. If I knew with 100% certainty that I could quadruple returns at discretionary level, I still wouldn’t do it. The stress isn’t worth it. Beyond the mental toll, I’d have the insides of an 80 year old by the time I’m 50.
     
    #41     Dec 17, 2017
    tommcginnis likes this.
  2. themickey

    themickey

    Your definition of systematic is...?
    If systematic = automation, for me this is too hard. Not because of coding but because of the reliance too much on no computer glitches, eg updates which cause continual mayhem and reliable uninterupted streaming data etc.
     
    #42     Dec 18, 2017
  3. You can't directly compare the black and the red line as they clearly have different vol. This is because there are more discretionary traders in the FS universe than systematic (which of course in itself is interesting). Once you account for that the lines would be closer.

    Also people self declare on FS what their strategy is. Could be some bias there.

    GAT
     
    #43     Dec 18, 2017
    d08 likes this.
  4. TraDaToR

    TraDaToR

    Non-systematic scalpers can have sharpe ratios a lot higher than 1.5 in the long run, but their problem is capacity. At your institutional level, it is not worth the effort because the amounts generated are too low.
     
    #44     Dec 18, 2017
    tommcginnis likes this.
  5. ironchef

    ironchef

    Then I don't understand your definition of systemic vs discretionary. I thought systemic means I can automate my trading method and discretionary means it cannot be automated?

    I am doing the same thing in every trade but I cannot automate my methodology because I cannot automate my judgement or the FA I do in arriving at a candidate trade.
     
    #45     Dec 19, 2017
  6. d08

    d08

    Systematic not systemic, different definitions.
    Discretionary by definition means you use discretion, while you might or might not have a methodology, there is nothing fixed and subjective evaluation is used for most trades.
    Systematic being fixed, following a predetermined plan as written down/memorized/coded. You can execute systematic trading manually which some call discretionary trading but since no discretion is used, it's rather systematic.
     
    #46     Dec 19, 2017
  7. With the systematic you'll never predict stops(hint:no one will),that`s why it fails everytime.
     
    #47     Dec 19, 2017
  8. sle

    sle

    Systematic means that there is a fixed algorithm that either tells you when and what to trade or takes over everything including the execution. As long as your process for coming up with the trade can be expressed as a set of explicit rules it's systematic.

    If you are using judgement (e.g. you make a decision not to trade because it feels wrong or something is missing) it's not a systematic strategy. Fundamental analysis actually has been successfully automated, there is a fair number of a fundamental quant funds that do exactly that.

    Not really, though. Stops can not be predicted, but they certainly don't break the systematic aspect of the strategy. They just add path dependence.
     
    #48     Dec 19, 2017
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  9. The history does not repeat itself!You cant predict volatility,hence you`ll never define stops.Its more like Brownian or gambling.I found that the systematic is pure gambling so the variables are just.
     
    #49     Dec 19, 2017
  10. sle

    sle

    I am not sure what you mean by "define stops". There is a garden variety of ways to include stops into a trading strategy, from simple fixed value to expected move (based on either implied or realized vol) to cost of risk.

    Well, that just means that you personally could not find a strategy that works. Doesn't mean you are a bad trader nor does it mean that other people can't find those strategies.
     
    #50     Dec 19, 2017
    digitalnomad, Sprout and d08 like this.