What's a hedge fund structure worth to you?

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by Clayart, Jan 12, 2023.

  1. Databento

    Databento Sponsor

    From our CTO:

    I've gone through this and handled tax and regulatory audits, plus Form ADV, blue sky filings etc.

    Most law firms will take on the formation docs, subscriber agreements, pitch deck review, and PPM for anywhere around $50k to $120k, depending on the complexity — lower end if you just need a domestic fund. Overall, for this part, I am slightly skeptical of a turnkey solution, because I think continuity is more important than cost, because the follow-up time is more wasteful than the upfront cost. This means someone who remembers the details on your subscriber agreements, catches you up on relevant regulatory changes, can help respond to regulatory audits without being caught up to speed, reminds you on blue sky filings without billing you 1/6 of an hour for an email, and has colleagues who can provide ancillary support on things like employee litigation etc.

    The boilerplate administrative work (tax IDs, incorporation certificates etc.) is much cheaper. Anyone can do it themselves in under 2 hours with context switching included, but otherwise market rate is probably under $4k.

    The compliance work (regulatory filings etc.) can be tasked to paralegals at a law firm, but is cheaper and generally better if you use a fund administrator that provides this service, or an outsourced compliance firm, or outsourced compliance officer, for which the market rate is usually under $15-30k per year.

    Setting up the brokerage accounts, picking an administrator, auditor, tax preparer etc. are probably not things you want "turnkey"... there's a lot of "alpha" to be gained by picking good providers and avoiding terrible providers here. Not to mention, it's almost free: There's not much paperwork with picking an auditor or tax preparer. There's some legal review to understand how your fees escalate with AUM for an administrator. There's a lot of paperwork for a prime brokerage account, but either ways even if you handed it to an introducing broker who is generous with their time, you'll still need to furnish a lot of information yourself.

    So in total, my market's $40k-155k.
     
    #11     Jan 12, 2023
    swinging tick, VPhantom and Clayart like this.
  2. MarkBrown

    MarkBrown

    there are a zillion of failing funds ripe for a take over - i explored this route a few years ago, but decided i would stay a lonely private trader. lol
     
    #12     Jan 12, 2023
    TheDawn likes this.
  3. delta20

    delta20


    Have you heard of a company called repool.com ? any thoughts on them
     
    #13     Jan 12, 2023
    Databento likes this.
  4. Databento

    Databento Sponsor

    ?

    It makes sense to acquire a BD or FCM, but taking over an investment fund and its manager to jumpstart the regulatory and setup process seems like a bad idea. The due diligence costs and time alone will exceed that of starting from a clean slate, plus it will automatically trigger LP review and probable redemptions whether it's codified in the LP agreements or not.
     
    #14     Jan 12, 2023
  5. Databento

    Databento Sponsor

    CTO:

    Cool, didn't hear about this before. I didn't demo this, but on a glance, I feel the main potential value-add here is not the all-in-one aspect but the fact that the reporting process is integrated and automated/simplified on the web platform.

    We've seen most of the top 5 fund administrators — their web portals and reporting options are so barebones and outdated that you practically need an experienced full-time person on your team doing this, which is at least as much as the ~$155k formation cost I mentioned.

    I personally think it's nice if a provider focused on this particular pain point rather than stretched themselves too thin on the all-in-one aspect, which ends up requiring a lot of high touch service staff and resembling a traditional business dressed up as a tech startup. (It reminds me of the Atrium LTS and Pilot Bookkeeping stories.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2023
    #15     Jan 12, 2023
    Clayart likes this.
  6. spy

    spy

    We're here to keep you company :D
     
    #16     Jan 12, 2023
    MarkBrown likes this.
  7. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    It would depend on the complexity of the structure, the competence of the person providing it as well as your degree of eagerness of having another person draw up the structure for you. Not interested in trading other people's money ever but if I were to, these would be the factors that I would take into consideration to decide whether to draw up the structure myself or hire someone else doing it.
     
    #17     Jan 12, 2023
    Clayart likes this.
  8. #18     Jan 12, 2023
  9. mervyn

    mervyn

    No startup budget. I got quotes years ago from state street etf turnkey, 15-20bps AUM. HF is more complex, if you have to answer to public market, and different regulatory agencies.
     
    #19     Jan 12, 2023
  10. Clayart

    Clayart



    I totally agree to the point that continuity is way more important that saving some money on the one time upfront cost.
    What I am suggesting here is having an aggregator service where in a firm mixes and matches different service providers according to your specification, Not being the service provider to the fund.
    This kind of service could be useful for a new fund or an emerging manager who wouldn't necessarily would want a full time employee dealing with these things, at least not initially, As they grow they can start dealing with the service providers differently when they choose to do so.

    And yes there is a lot of alpha to be had in picking the right service providers, as the saying goes a handyman is as good as his tools are. So here in what I'm suggesting is essentially acting as the aggregator of services for a fund, while having the fund directly get into contract with the service providers, while charging the firm a fix one time consultation fee and having the follow up fees directly go to the service providers.
     
    #20     Jan 13, 2023
    Databento likes this.