WTS offers 80-90% at 20-30 cents/1000 shares. they've been in business for years now and have always paid. they are unquestionably the best prop firm out there. people who disparage them either have a personal vendetta against Simon or they are clueless.
My experience with them (Canadian version of WTS) is that they're legit. Their model is to pass on fees to you while minimizing overhead. They have their own firm strat, so you won't be using your own. I think the hate stems from specific US divisions or something. I don't think they're bad at all, but not for everyone. Maybe good if you're a newbie?
Look, as noted with the Echo reference above, check the balance sheets. Not just the trader money, but the Firm's money. Is a solid Firm going to allow a trader to get hit with someone else's losses just for a few bucks? And, in reality - I know, a bad word "reality" - we have never hit anyone in the Firm EVEN THOUGH we have had to eat a few $million a time or two. Just go with a good firm and worry about your making money. If you even have to think about the Firm's money - then run, simple as that. Don
WTS is charging 20-30 cents per 1000 shares. If another firm is charging 2-3 DOLLARS per 1000 shares, I would certainly see where they would have more money to show. But, the second firm's money is really just their traders money that they have taken in the form of excessive commissions. I'm not sure that's the kind of firm that I'd be interested in. By your logic, it might be better yet to go with E*Trade, at a huge commission rate because, geez, look at their balance sheet!!!!!!! The best option, clearly, is to get to the point where you can go retail with a strong clearing firm, and negotiate the lowest possible commissions. This way, your capital has better protection than the strongest prop firm, and your commissions are as low as possible. If this is not an option, then a trader must balance between their risk to capital (and their IS risk to their capital with any prop firm) and the associated commission rates at the various prop options. It would be crazy to underestimate the low term impact of high commission costs. For a trader doing 2M shares per month, the difference between 30 cents per 1000 shares and $2.50 per 1000 shares is $4600 per month! After six months, this trader saves $27,600 by having his account at the less expensive firm. Considering that this trader might only have a capital deposit of $10,000 that is 'at risk', he could withstand the complete loss of his capital to the less expense firm after six months and still come out way ahead financially. Anyway, just wanting to point out what should be obvious: Commission rates are extremely important, and often make the difference between surviving as a trader and the end of a trading career.
I'm going to call WTS, speak to the owners and ask if I can trade for 20 cents per 1000 shares. That is so much cheaper than I'm paying now. I hope it's not restricting me to only certain symbols (as Canadian rebate firms do), and I hope we can short and keep all our rebates. I'm very serious. If I can 20 cents per 1000, and get a rebated of 25 cents per Hundred then I can net $2.25 per 1000 on scratch trades (minus SEC fees). Who's running the place these days? Save me a search... Don I called, someone answered and then got switched to voice mail. I'll try again later, this may be an opportunity for our "family" accounts.
I'm also going to call Bright Trading to find out if they really charge $2 to $3 (or even much more) per 1000 shares. That is multiples higher than I've been paying for years. I'm wondering if they maybe include covering your car insurance or a house payment as part of their fees. I'm very serious (at least about their rates being many multiples of what I've been paying for years). Crazy stuff, but if you can find traders willing to pay a huge premium for a perceived value, then more power to them, I guess. But, I'll save you some time, Don. => Yes, there are firms (many firms) that offer dramatically lower rates than what you claim to pay for your 'family' account. You might want to consider moving those accounts to another firm. Assuming those 'family' accounts do any real volume, you'll save a bundle of money. And that will have a wonderful impact on your own 'balance sheet'.
Now just no answer. I tried both numbers. I'll try again later. If anyone has direct contact person/number please PM me. Thanks, Don
Don, If you are really interested, I'll do the leg work for you and find you a firm that saves you 50%+ on your commission fees for your family account. All I ask is 10% of your commissions saved for the next couple of years. Deal? Just PM to me your current 'family account' commission rates and average monthly volume and I'll take care of the rest. (This offer is only good for Don, as he's done a lot for the ET community over the years) -Eric
Thanks, but I think I'll track down Brian Schaefer, or someone else there. I am really curious as to the whole thing. I'll PM you something. Don