But if cash is getting tight I would DO IT ON PAPER until you have at least 21 days of positive results. If you're in future's there are number of brokerages that offer realtime free papertrading platforms, so all the actions are exactly the same a risking money. I know from my very costly experiences that it is hard to trade on a demo or on paper, as you "know" you'll do well this time, but it took me a lot of money and very long time (and I never really made it on my own, but that's another story). If you persevere, you will succeed. But it won't help if you're dead broke when you get there. First master the art (or science) of trading and master yourself, which is really the challenge for many, then put your money to work. There is plenty time to get rich and the market will wait for you to be ready.
Interesting how we have come to trading from the exact opposite direction: I was being taken advantage of big time by my employer, never had any friends, always had too much money (but of course still way too little to be able to afford life in peace), and all I want from trading is to pay the bills. I am slowly grinding out miniscule profits, but I often wonder if it's all worth it. I could probably make more working as a slave again, this time I would just have to make sure to get paid or leave immediately. The most interesting part about my situation is that (unlike most traders here) I myself am not my own nemesis. It is my father. And yesterday I was painfully reminded of this fact: My whole story goes like this: I started trading in 2001, and from the beginning I was very disciplined and never had any big losses. In fact, I have always eben slightly profitable, but about two months into my trading career I told my father what I was doing, and he just said: "Nobody can make money trading stocks. You make little profits all the time and then on one big down day you blow out your account." From that day on I was losing money. Not very fast, because I was still very disciplined, but steadily. After half a year of losses, I broker off contact with my father almost completely and a month after that, I was back to grinding out profits. That went quite well for almost a year, until yesterday when I thought I had overcome the whole situation with the Ãber-Daddy and e-mailed him about the market. I had lost quite a bit (1% of my equity in one day, which is kind of extreme for me), and I told him I was wondering if it's all worth it, especially considering that I basically live inbetween several construction sites and therefore have constant noise terror all day every day, so I might as well wither away in some office job. Of course, I was not being quite serious, but the response I got from my father was: "I would be glad to hear that your loss in the market would not have been in vain if it served to get you to start looking for a job." Needless to say, I lost again today. Well, technically I had a net gain for the day, because of some calls I had purchased on the close yesterday, but my scalping (which is what I try to do for a living) sucked. 60% losers. Actually, I just checked, I even had a slight net gain from scalping, so I am starting to wonder what it is I am complaining about, it's just that it doesn't feel like a gain when you try to go long MMM all afternoon for a series of 1-penny losses. The thing is, I knew at 2:30 that someone was selling MMM (it was pretty obvious), but I kept going long MMM, neglecting opportunities in BAC, C, PEP, GS, DD. Actually, forget what I said about my father. Now that I have gone through this whole day again, writing this post, I amend my previous statement: I AM my own nemesis. Let's see if we can't snap out of this on Monday!
Reddart, Please disregard this smart-ass remark... Next time I will read the opening post and not just the title :eek:
I think the key might be here: I quit a decent job (that I really enjoyed!), broke up with my fiancee, turned my back on an emotionally nourishing (and fun) social circle all to chase the almighty $$. Maybe money means too much to you? From what I've read, and in my limited experience, you have to be detached from money to really make money in the markets. It can't matter that much. You have to be balanced. I can see giving up a job one hates to trade. I can see breaking up with a woman who would never understand that you want to trade for a living. But what required you to give up your friends too? Giving up a job one likes to chase a dream is one thing. But pursuit of money should not be confused as a dream. The dream is what you do with the money. Emptiness is when the dream is just money... for if that's the case, nothing will fullfill you-even if you get it. André
Exactly my thinking here. A traveler thirsts, so he cups his hands together and dips them into the cool stream of water. As he raises his hands to drink, some water spills out, but some reaches his parched mouth also. Still he is thirsty for more, so he dips his hands again, making small adjustments so the next time less water spills, and there is more to quench his thirst. Finally, as he continues on, he learns to cup his hands the same way each time in such a manner that very little water spills, and most reaches his mouth. Contrast this to the one who thirsts and places his hands into the water, spills most as did the first traveler, and begins to clutch at the water, grabbing for it, clenching his hands tightly. He sees others drinking yet his thirst remains. Regardless of how hard he clenches his fists, he is never able to keep enough water in his hands to quench his thirst. As such, his thirst continues to grow until he ultimately perishes. You have lived like a hermit, yet say you don't think you can go back to being the average joe. I'd say the average joe has it better than you. He has savings, he has friends, he has a family. He is fairly secure that there will be food on the table, a roof overhead, and gas in the car. He is not defeated. I wish you had approached someone long ago when there was time to make the small adjustments. As it is, in truth, there is still time. As long as the markets trade, you have time to make the adjustments. However, because of your dwindling funds, you should stop trading now. Not quit... stop. Get a job in the field you enjoyed, I am sure you will see how quickly you are relieved. I would bet, given that much of the public has been burned in stocks, that you will find a sympathetic ear from prospective employers. Start bringing in some fresh cash, get your life back, and find some balance. And..... here's the good part.... while you are saving and having fun with new friends etc., ..... papertrade! Papertrade until there is nothing left to do but pull the trigger again for real. Tiger Woods took time off to rework his swing and he came back better than ever! So can you. Good luck and don't hesitate to PM me if there is anything I can do for you.
Nothing is worth unhappiness in your life, even trading. Have you thought about taking a break for a while? Many traders I know take breaks to clear their minds.
If you are daytrading on a discretionary basis, here is a tip. Don't look at your account value or P/L. Not even at the end of the day; maybe on the weekend take a look. Just be aware that you are up or down in general. You cannot have any attachment to any of your previous trades, market biases, or MONEY when daytrading...... It cannot be about the money.
Hi Andre I think the key might be here: I quit a decent job (that I really enjoyed!), broke up with my fiancee, turned my back on an emotionally nourishing (and fun) social circle all to chase the almighty $$. Maybe money means too much to you? From what I've read, and in my limited experience, you have to be detached from money to really make money in the markets. It can't matter that much. You have to be balanced. I can see giving up a job one hates to trade. I can see breaking up with a woman who would never understand that you want to trade for a living. But what required you to give up your friends too? I've heard of the 'detachment from the money' advice, and I suppose it would be useful to someone that whose trading is affected by constantly bouncing equity. I don't really have that problem. It obviously matters a hell of a lot to me when I keep losing it everyday, but probably not in the way that you imagine. (ie, I don't have any problems 'pulling the trigger' or taking losses). Giving up my friends wasn't what I initially had in mind. I was pretty quick to realize that a hell of a lot of work goes into being a good trader and I resolved to do that work. My friends, not really having the same desires as me, found it difficult to understand. I'd try to explain, but I got sick of being told why I'm making such a stupid decision, why I'm going to regret it, why I'm going to fail etc etc. After a while I just started feeling like too different to them to bother maintaing any kind of a friendship. Giving up a job one likes to chase a dream is one thing. But pursuit of money should not be confused as a dream. The dream is what you do with the money. Emptiness is when the dream is just money... for if that's the case, nothing will fullfill you-even if you get it. Obviously it's not the actual dollars themselves I'm chasing, it's what having them means to me. I was actually quite content working in my job (office - help desk supervisor). After I visited a cousin of mine who is a vice president at a fund management firm and saw how he lived, I felt like an idiot for settling for less. It's not like I could say "yeah, he has his money (and all that brings), but he hasn't got X (something I have)". Nope. He's got all that I have, and he's got loads more money. And I bet there's heaps of others like that too. Well, I wanted to be able to live like that too. Friends are easy for me to make. I can easily meet another girl, probably far better than my ex-fiancee. It's the money part that's tough to get.
You have lived like a hermit, yet say you don't think you can go back to being the average joe. I'd say the average joe has it better than you. He has savings, he has friends, he has a family. He is fairly secure that there will be food on the table, a roof overhead, and gas in the car. He is not defeated. Inandlong, I work at trading for 10-12 hours a day. And when I'm doing something else, my mind is still on the trading. That alone makes it difficult to do much else. But also, the kinds of things I enjoyed doing before becoming a trader - going to clubs, visiting friends, movies, camping, fishing, playing basketball - all kind of lost their gloss for me. I just don't enjoy doing them much anymore when I think about how far off my goal I am. Lately, my dwindling savings have also made me hesitate to spend money on anything but the necessities of life. (Food, water, electricity etc) That's why I say I've been living like a hermit. And, for now, I agree that Joe Average has it better than me. But I don't intend (or, I hadn't intended) to live like this forever. This was meant to be a short term sacrifice - and one I'm gladly making. I could go back to the kind of life I was living quite easily. But I just don't think I'd be able to enjoy it. You see, I come from a blue collar family, in a blue collar suburb, with blue collar friends, a blue collar fiancee - you get the picture. I thought it was a major step up when I managed to get an office job. I realized that even the managers there didn't seem to have a whole lot more on the ball than me. So I went to night school and got my high school diplom, started part time college at night and realized, again, that these people had nothing over me. Then I got whacked with a huge realization - that I had been selling myself short my whole damn life. And then when I went and saw how my cousin lived, and again realized that he's not some great genius, I simply had to find a way to make that kind of money. Can I go back now? Can I just let the dream die like that? Well, if I keep going the way I am, I'll have to - temporarily - but I'm sure not going to like it.
I typically see people take at least a year to become profitable. I hope you're right! FYI: You should not be doing trading for a living unless you truly love it. If you switched industries to do trading without a clear understanding of the job and what it entails then shame on you. I think I had quite a clear understanding of what trading would entail. I spent a good six months of preparation for it, I certainly didn't go in blind. A beginner without any experience in the business needs to learn from someone: in these cases a prop firm or something similar is a better path than trying to learn it on your own ..... I did trade at a prop firm, and I was much less of a beginner than some of the others that started at the same time as me (what in the world where they doing!). Still, I think the whole thing is overrated. Eventually, you still have to learn it for yourself. I didn't find that I was taught very much above and beyond what I read in the books.