What was really going on in the torture prison?

electron · May 4, 2004

even admit that you have heard about it, in the first place? Jeez... this is old news to me. I guess if there were not for the international reaction this thing would have died in the US media before it even started. There is no justification to what has happened. The only right thing to do now is to find the responsible for that and punish them.

electron · May 4, 2004

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

And why is it the public is largely unconcerned if a plane kills 100 women and children with bombs but is outraged over a few stupid pictures? Have we totally lost a sense of proportion or is the prison scandal the absolute worst thing that has happened?
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Of course, the public is concerned. You don't remember that Reagan dropped a few bombs over Libya in mid 80-ies when Kadaffi orchestrated bombing of an American plane in flight?

dgabriel · May 4, 2004

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I am trying to get beyond attacking or defending this. Obviously it is a political disaster for the administration. As for the "Arab street" and arab governments, they are outraged in the same way that the Congressional Black Caucus was outraged over the Trent Lott episode. In other words, they are thrilled and overjoyed they have something to complain about. Most of those governments routinely do far worse to their prisons full of political prisoners.

I see two important issues here. One, the MP's are being hung out to dry for this, while those who are truly responsible in my view, the military intelligence people, are skating. Two, there is a difficult ethical question over how far to go in this sort of interrogation. People are acting like we shouldn't go beynd what a local police force in the US can do, but that view is very naive in my judgment. But, as pointed out, there no doubt are some totally innocent prisoners, plus the quality of information one receives from coercion can be spotty.

And why is it the public is largely unconcerned if a plane kills 100 women and children with bombs but is outraged over a few stupid pictures? Have we totally lost a sense of proportion or is the prison scandal the absolute worst thing that has happened?
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Yes, the sense of proportion is skewed, but the factor of intentionality is overriding. There should be greater outrage at the bombing of the 100.

It's not clear what was going on there. If the MI controlled this, why did they let the grunts get involved and take pictures of it?
The old saw that MI is an oxymoron certainly rings true here.

Riskmanager · May 4, 2004

LETTER TO PRESIDENT FROM BRAVE FREEDOMÂ®-DEFENDER CELEBRATING THE ONE-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THE SHUTTERING OF IRAQ'S "RAPE ROOMS":

http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2004/050204.asp

msfe · May 6, 2004

"Operation Iraqi Freedom" ... another nice collection of Abu Ghraib photos

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...rtat=1&indexFile=world_2004-05-03_prisonabuse

Trader5287 · May 6, 2004

AAA,

DGabriel hits the nail on the head on this one. It's the intentional act factor.

This one is real bad. The first thing that came to my mind on the political and publicity angles when I saw it on Drudge a week ago was My Lai. I believe that's the way the Administration sees it too.

There's another angle here too that's brewing IMO and that is that the military isn't getting the job done over there. I've wanted to roll heads in the CIA, DoD and command for some time, starting with Tenet and Franks, for not turning up OBL and stopping the roadside bombing casualties.

I'm in the camp that thinks when the Commander in Chief sets a a policy or says do something - you'd better get it done without making the Administration look bad. I may be the only camper here though.

Geo.

AAAintheBeltway · May 6, 2004

Quote from Trader5287:

AAA,

DGabriel hits the nail on the head on this one. It's the intentional act factor.

This one is real bad. The first thing that came to my mind on the political and publicity angles when I saw it on Drudge a week ago was My Lai. I believe that's the way the Administration sees it too.

There's another angle here too that's brewing IMO and that is that the military isn't getting the job done over there. I've wanted to roll heads in the CIA, DoD and command for some time, starting with Tenet and Franks, for not turning up OBL and stopping the roadside bombing casualties.

I'm in the camp that thinks when the Commander in Chief sets a a policy or says do something - you'd better get it done without making the Administration look bad. I may be the only camper here though.

Geo.
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As I recall My Lai involved hundreds of deaths. This case involved some naked prisoners.

I do agree with the remainder of your post. Hard to know who is responsible from the outside, but this occupation has been a massive screwup from the get-go. Someone has to be held responsible.