what to do when you're screwed

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Gordon Gekko, Oct 8, 2002.

  1. well, well, well.... the days i never thought would come a few years ago are here now.

    i made a lot of money by the end of 1999. i guess you could say i had beginner's luck. i've been living off my account and trying to learn how to trade ever since. i always thought i would eventually figure it out. but now it's 3 (almost 4) years later, and i still suck.

    well now i'm down to only a few thousand dollars. even if i were to double my account, i'd still only have like 9k..so big deal. and nevermind doubling it, i can't make 10 cents...so 100% isn't gonna happen any time soon. every time i trade i end up losing money. i traded today and lost money. i'd be better off making no trades at all.

    the only hope i have left is to sell my brand new car that is paid for. by the way, it just got broken into 3 days ago and it's all f#cked up now. luckily, i only have to pay $300 and i think my insurance will cover the rest. at this point, i'm thinking i should sell the car after it gets fixed and put the 20k in the bank. i should also close my trading account and put what's left in the bank as well. then, i should get a job to pay the bills until i do know how to trade.

    by no means am i saying i'm quitting. i will never quit. i will still be here on the boards. i'm just not going to let myself lose everything i have. my point is just that i need to stop blowing my money while i don't know what the hell i'm doing. the pathetic thing is, it's almost like i know everything, BUT AT THE SAME TIME I KNOW NOTHING! i've read all the books, made probably thousands of trades...yet i never found something that works for me.

    some of you may think i'm a total newbie that still doesn't know the ropes, but i can assure you i do. someone told me to read "trading in the zone." i did, and i already knew what it says. i know the stock market is really like a casino. i know anything can happen at any time. i don't make predictions. anyway, i'm not going to get into proving myself. i already know i know a lot....

    i guess the bright side is i've learned a lot about the markets for my age. i'm 24 and i know more about the markets than my father...and he's the one who first got my interested in this.

    to demonstrate how pathetic i am, lately i've been paying for gas with nickels and dimes (literally) so that i don't have to withdraw money from my trading account. i guess i've been hoping that i'd be able to turn myself around. but i can see that it just isn't happening.

    well anyway, i'm just wondering if anyone else has been in my situation before? i'm sure everyone has their low points. i'd like to know if some of you out there were once in my shoes and you're now profitable? how did you get out of my situation? i have a lot of respect for you guys that have been able to figure this game out.

  2. yes, many times

    No matter how successful you are at something else, if it's not really what you want to do, it's always only second best
  3. m_c_a98


    What are you trying to trade? what market?
  4. silk


    Your history sounds like mine. I got lucky in 1999 when i got started trading my online account. I was so lucky that I made enough to quit my day job and do this full time. In 2000 and 2001 I proceeded to lose everything i had made. I was down to my last 20k, and then i blew half of that as well.

    I was convinced that i knew more about the market than 99% of other traders, yet i kept losing. My system and money management was flawed. There is nothing more frustrating in the world than to love the markets, know that you are good, but to still SUCK hard.

    Up until that time i had not even heard of proprietary trading. At the end of 2001 I learned of a prop shop that was hiring and I gave it a try. Something immedietly clicked and i quickly became profitable. My experience was that it was hard to stay consistent working from home. I needed someone looking over my shoulder to make sure i didn't do anything stupid. And if you only have 20k then you have no chance at all. I started with a 3k deposit and probably was given 200k in buying power within a few weeks. You've got little chance on your own. Perhaps you could benefit like i did by going the Prop Trading route.
  5. That is the Key........i did trade equites in 99-2001. I noticed what happen when we went to penny spreads...the edge was gone.

    Also i noticed that i had to pull back size and rethink my trading.

    I made a move to Options.....5.10.20 cent spreads. Far better than stocks at this moment.

    I have re-thought my trading style...learned a new market.

    Now i trade options and futures.

    Of course the key is to find a trading partnership....with the ability to handle your and partners money.

    RISK MANAGMENT must to top notch.....

    95% of all traders end up failing....the odds are against you as soon as you start.

    It takes mental strenght to trade......DISCIPLINE is the name of the game now.

    Also....with the amount that your getting for your car....you dont have enough capital in my opinoin.....

    even with stocks being cheap.......you need at least a half million to make Trader money.

    Of course some will tell you that they do it on 1000.....but trust me...they are not clearing 250 to a half a million a year. No way in hell.

    Maby take your coin and trade minis...but be aware....CAPITAL and DISCIPLINE are the two key elements. This game is Over for many........

  6. whats up with the new car anyways? If your in this position
    then somthing is amiss what are your priorities? b.t.w- the stock market is not like a casino...its more like a hornets nest
  7. Threei


    I was in your shoes.

    In some regards it was better: I had 11 thousands left in my trading account and money for like 6 months of living. In some regards it was worse. You are 24, you can get a job. I was 37, with wife and two kids, in the foreign country, without right to work (my immigration case wasn't finalized yet) and with no place to return. if case fails. So if I didn't make it in trading it would be total life catastrophe.

    I made it. I took twice that 11 thousands to 17 and right back down. Then I broke this barrier and from the moment account went over 25K I started withdrawing money for a living from it. It went to 70K first year after turnaround and over 200K second year (I still kept 25-30K in trading account itself). It IS doable. Not easy though.

    I can't tell you in two lines or two posts how and what I did... for several reasons. First, it would take longer than that. Second, there is book in a process of publishing that describes both, all the mental tricks I used to keep myself within right state of mind and the trading system that I worked out for myself. I am prohibited from posting the cotent of it.

    Still, there are some things I would like to tell you. I read some of the threads you started. here is what I see:

    1. You are overcomplicating things. I know you heard many times about keeping it simple, but did you really HEAR it? All the complicated things you read and tried in fact should finally lead you to some pretty simplistic approach.
    2. You are looking for some answer outside of you. Yeah, I know, you heard many times that answer is within you, but you still try to find that system or indicator or their combination that would work. There is NO system that fits all. You want some formal things to work outside of you, so to speak... so that you would just set those things in motion with your entry. But it's not the market that gives you money or takes it. It's you who does both. (again, I know, you heard it...) Some of my friends and co-workers do use systems but they have amazing feel for what is going on. They watch what happens and while their entries and exits are within their system's parameters they still apply good dose of discretion. You can call it intuition... but it comes from big experience, from thoussands of traxdes and, most importantly, from watching some very basic things.
    3. Putting 1 and 2 together... See, all those complicated things you read while taught you plenty, also did certain harm. They took you away from the roots. Try to do something very simple: watch the movement on the tape, and on 1 min chart for a while, trying to get a feel. Apply any system you want as long as it's not too cumbersome but watch what happens at the points of your entry, exit, between them... and listen to the action, try to find that resonance within you when something clicks and things become clear. That's when it becomes both, simple and from within you.

    I know it's not easy to dwcribe in words... but anyway, no matter how I put it, you need to feel it yourself.

    If something in what I wrote sounds harsh - I didn't mean it. It's just how it is. And after all, no matter how harsh anyone sounds, the market does it more cruel.

    I'll finish on this, it's already way too long...

  8. doher


    I'm in the same leaky boat.

    Closing in on a margin call.

    Got notice today
  9. i understand man.. i remember when i first started, i bought a bunch of EGGS (egghead.com) and it went up like 90% in one day.

    i gotta say i'm not a wild trader. my trading has been a very slow death. i read the van tharp book... i would always find a stop, risk 1%.....and then determine how many shares...and i'd limit the max size trade to 25% of my account. so i'd say van tharp helped me stay in the game long, but i still suck though.
  10. well, i'm not planning on turning my peanuts into stacks of gold like some people. if it happens, great...but i'm not expecting it. if i could make 10-20k a year to start, compound my money, and grow as a trader as i get older, i'd be pretty happy. i don't need to make 500k/year, although it would be nice..heh
    #10     Oct 8, 2002