What risk management mistake did optionsellers.com fund manager do to blow up his fund and clients?

Discussion in 'Risk Management' started by helpme_please, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. sle

    sle

    As an example, you sell an OTM put on S&P and buy an even-further-OTM call on VIX. VIX is a proxy for markets decline, but it's an imperfect hedge - you can imagine a scenario where S&P is down a lot while VIX has not reached your strike or something like that.
     
    #61     Nov 18, 2018
    JSOP likes this.
  2. Mate, are you aware we are talking about long wing positions? What is it with your short wings? Only total retards sell wings for pennies (unless and that is the only exception I can think of, you run a massive options book and trade relative value and are pretty much hedged in surrounding strikes and expires) . When you are short gamma then obviously that implies long wings in the event of hedges.

    The bread and butter of most professional French prop options traders is to get paid gamma and to protect the wings. Never heard of a shop that approves selling wings. Ever.

     
    #62     Nov 18, 2018
  3. TheBigShort

    TheBigShort

    This is very untrue. Selling crash protection is a viable strategy if done with an actuarial mindset. "Only idiots sell them" is only one reason why they are usually over priced.

    You can get quite large rather quickly selling crash protection(in over leveraged amounts) if you accept the fate that one day you will blow up spectacularly. These are the real idiots/scams

    If we get another 15% decline in equity markets, I am sure you will here about some :)

    PS. I think @sle is talking about short wings as that is the underlying topic of this thread.
     
    #63     Nov 18, 2018
    cvds16 likes this.
  4. ironchef

    ironchef

    Thanks.
     
    #64     Nov 18, 2018
  5. ironchef

    ironchef

    Karen the Supertrader.:D
     
    #65     Nov 18, 2018
    GRULSTMRNN likes this.
  6. TheBigShort

    TheBigShort

    He was targeting 25% net of fees. Assuming 2/20 He was looking for 30%+. Thats a big difference then targeting 10%. Optionselling.com stated their strategy was selling 6-9 month DEEP OTM options (in their book they mention selling a delta 3). Achieving a 10% return selling delta 3's 6-9 months out does not sound like an easy task either (without taking on heavy downside risk)
     
    #66     Nov 18, 2018
  7. sle

    sle

    Are we? Cause I've been talking about short wings pretty much from the first time I posted in this thread :) In response to @MrMuppet, I am saying that in my recollection, positions that blow up funds are naked short wings, not short gamma. Maybe we are having a serious communication failure and in reality we are mostly in agreement?

    That's a very different trade. It is scary and has a potential to get one fired, but at the bird-eye level you usually you have a fair idea what the risk is in the book and you can cover it.

    I've never worked for one (nor would I want to), but I certainly have seen plenty of them - the guys in the subject, the LJM guys et al. It seems like it's a strategy that attracts a lot of investors when the going is good.
     
    #67     Nov 18, 2018
    Joe Chong likes this.
  8. https://www.ft.com/content/589157d8-e8ea-11e8-885c-e64da4c0f981


    Wild gas price swings spur CME ‘emergency action’
    US futures contract falls 14% after explosive rise the previous day



    "The severity of the price action had analysts and traders suggesting that one or more distressed speculators were liquidating positions during a frantic week..."
     
    #68     Nov 18, 2018

  9. Thanks BigShort! WOW, targeting a 10% return annually is still very, very tough without taking on too much risk, I can't believe how much they must have been taking on shooting for a 25% return! Nuts!
     
    #69     Nov 18, 2018
  10. Joseph23

    Joseph23

    #70     Nov 19, 2018