What really happened ....11 september

Discussion in 'Politics' started by NickBarings, Dec 5, 2006.

  1. WROOOOOOOONG-

    May 29 2002: As the last steel column of the demolished World Trade Center was removed Tuesday, construction workers at the site were honored for their work there since September 11th.
    http://www.wndu.com/news/052002/news_14322.php

    "There has been some concern expressed by others that the work of the team has been hampered because debris was removed from the site and has subsequently been processed for recycling. This is not the case. The team has had full access to the scrap yards and to the site and has been able to obtain numerous samples. At this point there is no indication that having access to each piece of steel from the World Trade Center would make a significant difference to understanding the performance of the structures".
    www.house.gov/science/hearings/full02/mar06/corley.htm
     
    #741     Jan 11, 2007
  2. wdscott

    wdscott



    So where is the analysis?

    The links don't work. Do you another link.

    Thanks
     
    #742     Jan 11, 2007
  3. You're right, they don't work anymore. Maybe because it's such old news that what's the point of keeping it active. LMAO....

    But anyways, these show that they did, indeed have plenty of time to look at the steel - YOU just don't believe it..

    BTW - that one link was to the House of Reps..... so I HARDLY think it's biased, etc.....

    And what does "do you another link" mean?
     
    #743     Jan 11, 2007
  4. how dare you request working links. non-working links are proof that their evidence was so strong, they no longer need it.
     
    #744     Jan 11, 2007
  5. man

    man

    btw we both did him wrong. later on in the tape he had
    to stop several times because he was so shocked about
    what happened to the people who trusted the officals,
    helped and got intoxicated. this sarcasm with the woman
    is the way he is dealing with events he can barely stand.

    good trading to you too.
     
    #745     Jan 11, 2007
  6. man

    man

    dear dpt

    you quoted NIST:

    "Seven major factors led to the collapses of WTC 1 and WTC 2;

    Structural damage from the aircraft impact;

    Large amount of jet fuel sprayed into the building interior, that
    ignited widespread fires over several floors;

    Dislodging of SFRM from structural members due to the aircraft
    impact, that enabled rapid heating of the unprotected structural
    steel;

    Open plan of the impact floors and the breaking of the partition
    walls by the impact debris that resulted in increased ventilatio;

    Weakened core columns that increased the load on perimeter walls;

    Sagging floors that led to pull-in forces on the perimeter columns; and

    Bowed perimeter columns that had a reduced capacity to carry loads."



    twice? within an hour? and some hours later due to
    other "seven major factors" building seven? you as
    a scientist have no single cell of doubt about these
    accumulation of coincidences? i must concede that
    i still do ...

    if i had to call for for occam i would think he said, "if
    it looks like controlled demolition take that as the
    assumption and prove the opposite".

    (i know i am abusing old will'em and that it looks like
    planes did it and so forth, nevertheless i think the
    demolition route was never really considered seriously.)
     
    #746     Jan 11, 2007
  7. i dont have time to reply to all the posts here but will do as soon as i can. dpt u are wrong on several accounts, will talk to u later.

    have a good 1 all.
     
    #747     Jan 11, 2007
  8. wdscott

    wdscott


    Lets focus here.

    I do believe someone may have said "independent bodies had ample time to inspect the metal." But that is a meaningless statement.

    The fact remains there is no metal analysis from ground zero. Period.

    DW
     
    #748     Jan 11, 2007
  9. dpt

    dpt

    Why not twice? Two planes did hit the buildings within less than an
    hour. Twice seems no less likely than once, given that two planes did actually
    hit.

    Why do you say coincidences? All the factors are quite conceivable, given that
    two planes did hit the buildings.

    That it happened twice would not raise any doubt in my mind, if the mechanism
    looks possible. What would raise doubt is if the mechanism is definitively
    shown to be impossible, or the facts are definitively shown to be other than
    as reported.

    Once two towers went down in a relatively uncontrolled fashion, it doesn't
    seem remarkable to me, either, that other nearby buildings could have been
    badly damaged, enough to cause subsequent collapse.

    I suspect that the collapse mechanism for building 7 could be closely related
    to that for the towers. I can see that some of the necessary conditions may be
    there: structural damage due to falling debris, as well as fire. But of
    course, there's no official story as yet, about building 7.

    If the basic mechanism works, and all of the necessary conditions for it to
    work are present, then it will happen each and every time.

    If it doesn't work, or some of the conditions are absent it's a different
    matter.

    But in any case, whatever the mechanism was for the collapse of building 7,
    it's certainly reasonable to suppose that it was related to that for the
    collapse of 1 and 2.

    Fair enough. Doubt, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. I don't have
    complete certainty about all details of the collapse, but I find the proposed
    mechanism fairly convincing given my understanding. So I see the
    `coincidences' more as an inevitable progression, following from the nature of
    the impacts and fire.

    Everybody abuses William of Ockham :p

    He said not to multiply entities beyond what is necessary. Most people forget
    the escape clause ... if the entities are necessary, you are allowed to
    multiply them.

    The whole question in applying the razor is to determine when it is necessary
    to multiplty entities. One case in which you are allowed to is a case in which
    the entities are clearly actually present.

    That it could have been a controlled demolition was certainly at least
    considered. It may be fair to say that it wasn't considered very
    seriously: I'm not going to argue with your opinion on that. It may be fair to
    say that there are flaws in the NIST study, I won't argue with that
    either. It's a matter of opinion.

    Supporting evidence for the controlled demolition theory in the form of trace
    amounts of explosives, that I would expect should be pretty easy to find, is
    simply missing.

    The most I've seen so far is reports of unidentified molten materials and hot
    steel, found days after the collapse, at ground zero, rumours about sulphates,
    and statements about `evaporated steel.'

    Now it can be claimed that all of that evidence was covered up, or spirited
    away to China or some such. But that really does require multiplying entities:
    that's why this is called a conspiracy theory.

    As a general rule, conspiracy theories become more unlikely to be true, as the
    number of required conspirators becomes larger.

    Personally, I think that this would have to be a very large conspiracy, so large that it strains credulity.

    That's where I begin to think that it's likely correct to apply the razor. Does it mean I have
    complete certainty about what happened?

    Certainly not. I'll remain open to hearing new evidence that might prove convincing.
     
    #749     Jan 11, 2007
  10. What kind of an analysis are you looking for, exactly?
     
    #750     Jan 11, 2007