What price religion?

The funny thing is.... many theists are the ones who are worried.
Finding life on another planet will shatter some theistic belief systems.

Especially the old fashioned kinds where man is the center
of the universe. You know... what the church has been
spewing since the dark ages

First it was the EARTH being the center of the universe.
Then SCIENCE shattered this theistic myth.
When science finds life elsewhere.... the church will look
foolish once again.

Religious leaders seem VERY nervous about this.
At least this is the impression I get from the news I hear
on the radio these days concerning religion and life on mars.


peace

axeman

 

Jem, I find this interesting because the lack of meaning in life is one thing that kept me going on god even though I'd long thrown away most of the other stuff.

However, since I've offiially dumped ideas about god, I think I can look at it a little more objectively.


What does the existance of god add to "meaning"?

What does it mean for life to be "meaningful"?

I know that the first thing theists usually think when asked this is "well, if all we do is eat, shit, make babies and then die, life is just pointless".

The thing is, even with a god, that is still what you do. Even if you were to then move into heaven, what would be the point of your life there? What "greater purpose" would there be in existing in heaven? Logically, such an existance would be just as "pointless" as anything here on earth.

Of course, those things are "too far" for most christians and other theists to think about. "Get to heaven first, then worry about that" seems to be the operating principle.

In my opinion, the issue is really one of emotional satisfaction, "happiness", if you like. To me, the theist believes that he cannot be emotionally satisfied, or happy, unless there's his actions on earth serve some "ultimate purpose".

The fact that there is absolutely no way we could ever ascertain what such an "ultimate purpose" is (and it's not heaven) doesn't seem to bother the theist, the important thing is that it's there.

Personally, I find this highly illogical. Just because, in the atheistic worldview, everything is ultimately meaningless does not mean that everything is meaningless at every point along the way.

A leaky roof is, of course, ultimately meaningless, even to me, however, if my roof is leaking it's meaningful in moment, in the sense that it pisses me off enough to go and do something about it, and that would be true whether there's one god or ten.

Viewing our lives as a series of moments to moments it is easy to see how we develop a sense of 'meaning'.

As for the fabric of society being ripped apart with no god. Please fill in the blanks here:

1) There is no god.
2) X

3) I kill myself, cheat, lie, steal etc

What is the 'X' step that leads to (3)?

I don't kill myself because I enjoy life too much. I don't cheat (usually!) because often the consequances are too harsh, I don't lie (usually) because of consequances, I don't steal because...wait for it...consequances, I don't murder because....guess!

As for doing the Benny Hinn thing, that is a great idea! There are big dollars to be made doing that! However, at the moment, I find the study I'm doing in biology and financial markets (working towards CFP) to be too interesting to give up just to blindly pursue money. However, being the next Benny Hinn is certainly viable! There are millions of suckers all too ready to believe almost anything. Why? That's what religion does to ya! And that's the point of this thread!

 

This is entirely untrue. The Jewish calendar goes back 5700-and something years - Don’t forget that non of the nations/tribes/whatever that existed in all those periods survived. The Jews were their own master for most of that time. King David and his son Solomon had the largest kingdom in the area in terms of territory, culture and wealth. It is not a widely known fact; the territory they controlled was larger than of Egypt’s. Don't forget that you can compare the size and success of a nation only to the period in which it existed. Do you really compare the Turks and British empires to King David’s kingdom which existed almost 4000 years before? Don't be absurd.

The mere fact that they survived and evolved for so long is amazing to me.

TM Trader

 

bah bah booey

 

What I find amazing is that so many folks think that without a man in the sky telling you what to do life has no meaning. Astounding.

 

I don't think atheist or agnostics have life without meaning to themselves.

The question ultimately is does life have meaning outside of my own ideas, perceptions, feelings, etc? Does life have an intended meaning that we are supposed to discover?

If it does, than that meaning would represent a deeper reality than man's thoughts, imaginations, perceptions, conclusions, etc.

If it does not, then it is all just self made meaning.

 

Actually, TMTrader is correct. No other group in history has held together as the Jews have. Whether you agree with that fact or not doesn't change the truth of it.

 

Very well said!

Oh, but if we don't believe in God, life has no meaning.

 

Yeah, you already posted this on another thread and it's still a pointless question. My reaction would be that the martians must have figured out how to build a house.

 

This is pure nonsense. I don't need to believe in an imaginary god to seek the greater answers to life's mysteries. I do not believe, however, that the greater answer is subserviance to a man in the sky. THAT would render life meaningless.