i am no world class mathematician so it's difficult to tap into their mind . Yes, they scribble furiously for a time and then, when they pause, their results are often counter-intuitive (at least for the time). But this doesn't prove God. They have never proven God.
lol.... every ZZZ assertion thread ends the same way. The Disgusting Troll starts to semantically reverse his opponents arguments and claim that they represent rebuttals. Eventually the semantic reversals will cease and then he will simply cut and paste his opponents text into a blank reply page and click 'submit'. If he is totally decimated, if it is shown beyond doubt that there is no logical basis for his beliefs and that he is simply stating his opinions, and asserting, he will start to post bizarre pictures, like one of a pink rabbit smelling its own finger. PGA Sunday today... so 'par for the course' would be an apt comment.
Nik, the guy is smart, and maybe he is right. But he can't prove it He might as well claim alien abduction and anal probing
The body is a limit on love. The belief in limited love was it's origin, and it was made to limit the unlimited. This is not merely allegorical. The body was made to limit you! And while you limit your awareness to it's tiny senses, you will not see the grandeur that surrounds you. God cannot come into a body, nor can you join Him there. The body was made as a "Keep Out" sign, where love is not allowed to trespass. Limits on love will always seem to shut God out, and keep you apart from Him. The body is a little fence around a glorious and complete idea. The body draws a circle, infinitely small, around a very little segment of Heaven, splintered from the whole, proclaiming that within it is your kingdom, where God can enter not. Within this kingdom the ego rules, and cruelly. And to defend this little speck of dust it bids you fight against the universe. This fragment of your mind is such a tiny part of it that, could you but appreciate the whole, you would see instantly that it is like the smallest sunbeam to the sun, or like the faintest ripple on the surface of the ocean. To do anything involves the body. And if you recognize you need do nothing, you have withdrawn the body's value from your mind. Neither the sun nor ocean is even aware of all this strange activity. They merely continue, unaware that they are feared and hated by a tiny segment of themselves. Little do these tiny segments know they could not survive apart from the whole. And what they think - ie. "there is no God" - in no way changes their total dependence on the whole for its being. Without the sun, the sunbeam would be gone. Without the ocean, the ripple would be gone. Such is the strange position in which those in a world inhabited by bodies seem to be. Each body seems to house a separate mind, a disconnected thought, living alone and in no way joined to the Thought by which it was created. Each tiny fragment seems to be self-contained, needing another for some things, but by no means totally dependent on its one Creator for everything. Like to the sun and the ocean your Self continues, unmindful that this tiny part regards itself as "you". "You" are not missing from the whole, for the whole would not be whole without the "it" that you call "you". I merely ask you not to accept this little, fenced-off aspect as yourself. Much as you think, your little kingdom is not separate. Nor does a fence really surround it but in your mind. Would you remain within your tiny kingdom, a sorry queen, a bitter ruler of all that she surveys, who looks on nothing yet who would still die to defend it? This little self is not your kingdom. Arched high above it and surrounding it with love is the glorious whole, which offers all its happiness and deep content to every part. The little aspect that you think you set apart is no exception. Love knows no bodies! Love's total lack of limit is it's meaning. In your tiny kingdom you have so little! Upon its barren ground would the Thought of God irrigate it with living water...waiting for you to open your gates to love. A single instant is all it takes. A single instant is all it takes to invite love to enter your bleak and joyless kingdom, and to transform it into a garden of peace and welcome. This instant comes as you let the body go from your awareness. For it is only the awareness of the body that makes love seem limited. Can you see yourself within a body and know yourself as an idea? No. Prepare for this instant by doing nothing. To do nothing is to rest, and make a place within you where the activity of the body ceases to demand attention. Community service? Stop it! When you withdraw the body's value from your mind it opens a door through which you slip past centuries of effort, and escape from time. There is one thing you have never done. You have not utterly forgotten the body. The body has perhaps faded at time from your sight, but it has not yet completely disappeared. You are not asked to let this happen for more than an instant. Yet it is in this instant that the miracle of Atonement happens. Afterwards, you will see the body again, but never quite the same. At no single instant does the body exist at all! It is always remembered or anticipated. Only it's past and future make it seem real. Time controls the body entirely, for sin is never wholly in the present. It has no attraction now. Its whole attraction is imaginary, and therefore must be thought of in the past or future where imagination rules. Therefore you cannot reach this instant unless, just for an instant, you are willing to see no past or future. Release is given you the instant you desire it. It is possible because you want it. The sudden expansion of awareness that takes place with your desire for it is the irresistible appeal the instant holds. There, the laws of limit are lifted for you, to welcome you to openness of mind and freedom. Peace will join you there, simply because you have been willing to let go the limits you have placed upon love. You need to do nothing. Find a quiet center in yourself, as if looking for the "I" of a hurricane of raging activity. This quiet center, in which you do nothing, will remain with you, giving you rest in the midst of every busy doing on which you are sent. From this center you will be directed how to use the body sinlessly. It is this center, from which the body is absent, that will keep it so in your awareness of it. Here is the ultimate release which everyone will one day find in his own way, at his own time. However, I am interested in saving you time. It is not necessary to spend a lifetime of contemplation and long periods of meditation aimed at detachment from the body. All such attempts will ultimately succeed because of their purpose. Yet the means are tedious and very time consuming, for all of them look to the future for release from a state of present unworthiness and inadequacy. On some of these long winding roads, enormous effort is expended to make holy what is hated and despised. Many have spent a lifetime in preparation, and have indeed achieved that instant of success. I aim merely to save you time. Save time for me by only this one preparation, and practice doing nothing else: Do Nothing. "I need do nothing" is a statement of allegiance, a truly undivided loyalty. Believe it for just one instant, and you will accomplish more than is given to a century of contemplation, or of struggle against temptation. Come to this instant with a brother, and you save even more time. Prepare you now for the undoing of what never was. If you already understood the difference between truth and illusion, the Atonement would have no meaning. Do not prepare for this instant by attempting to remove all fear and hatred from your mind. That is its function. The instant is the result of your determination to be holy. The desire and the willingness to let it come proceed its coming. You prepare your mind for this instant only to the extent of recognizing that you want it above all else. It is not necessary that you do more. Indeed, it is necessary that you realize that you cannot do more. It is your realization that you need do so little that enables the Teacher to give you so much. Trust not your good intentions. They are not enough. Trust only your willingness, and concentrate only on this. Be not disturbed by other thoughts that surround your willingness. The miracle lies in your willingness to let it be what it is. And in your willingness for this lies also your acceptance of yourself as you were meant to be. Humility will never ask that you remain content with littleness. But it does require that you be not content with less than greatness that comes not of you. It is impossible to make arrogant preparations for holiness. The instant comes as your little willingness is combined with the unlimited power of the Will of God. Atonement cannot come to those who think that they must first atone, but only to those who offer it nothing more than simple willingness to make way for it. Purification is of God alone, and is given you in an instant. You find it difficult to accept the idea that you need give so little to receive so much. But it is this that makes this instant so easy and so natural. Each instant that we spend together will teach you that this goal is possible, and will strengthen your desire to reach it. It is a desire to be holy. And in your desire lies its accomplishment. For you desire the only thing you ever had, or ever were. Jesus
It has been demonstrated that the mind can entertain concepts of something without limits, so it is not irrational for the same mind to consider concepts of God who is without limits. The decision to believe in the existence of something unlimited, whether in the narrow field of mathematics, or whether abstractly considering the existence of God is a personal decision, and is a rational process. Waiting for limited proofs based on limited senses and limited intellectual reasoning on that basis alone to reveal the existence or non existence of God the unlimited don't seem as reasonable... To proclaim that abstract thinking of God produces something false, is equally unreasonable. A person can imagine the sun rising tomorrow, which of course the truth of which is an unknown and unknowable, as only the passage of time will yield the truth or falsity of that belief system that the sun will rise tomorrow. Same holds true for beliefs of God or beliefs of non God, the truth or falsity of either belief is not known via senses and intellect in the present. Imagining something that does in fact exist, is not a false imagination, nor is a positive belief in the existence of God known to be a false imagination or an untrue abstract concept. It is personal choice what to believe, and neither the theists or atheists have the logical ground to pass value judgments on the personal beliefs of others. People make up their own minds. To each their own...
Yes, life is amazing, the Universe certainly seems to have order and what could possibly explain all this... But a lack of a ready explanation is not proof or evidence. Also, we humans have a bias, we see order and we EXPECT design and a designer. Order arising from random process, well we don't see that too often In fact, we humans often (usually) see it the other way around ie. order in randomness. We don't have to stray too far from home for evidence of this ("Random walk down Wallstreet") Rules of evidence and proof were created to help us arrive at reliable knowledge. Not perfect but useful tools, and now you wish to eschew those, retreat to Dark Ages to rely on intuition alone. Intuition alone burned a lot of witches. Well, to my mind intuition is in part based on EXPERIENCE, a vague emotional state or feeling as to what things mean or how they will work out. BUT even with simple tasks such as predicting if someone is lying or which way the market is going to go, it is notoriously UNRELIABLE. And this is with EXPERIENCE in dealing with smthg, you don't have experience in godly matters to develop any intuition. and these tasks or events, which intuition fails miserably more often than not, are infinitely less complex than knowledge of a god. IOW, If intuition can't tell you who is lying after years of experience with liars and truth-tellers, how can it tell you of a god?
You personally believe things, so? I personally believe things, so? What is the problem? You want to apply your "rules" based on limited instruments to something that is unlimited, and you think that is logical? Again, you are free to believe whatever you like. You don't have to trust intuition or any abstract thinking...again, what is your problem with those who do? You continue to bring up dark ages, what is the point? I am not suggesting that we stop using material logic to address material issues. Your line of thinking is really skewed in this matter, and it appears to be a common problem among the atheists who push their beliefs on others as superior beliefs. Why is that? Why do they have this need to act like evangelists and push their beliefs onto others? I am only saying that material logic applies only to that which is within its grasp, and if you think there is nothing outside of limited senses and intellect, again, that is your belief system, which is fine by me. I don't care what others believe, and have no reason to condemn the beliefs of others as long as their actions to infringe with my own personal belief systems. There is no reason to play some foolish game of "my beliefs are better than your beliefs" if you are truly content and satisfied with your own personal beliefs. Oh, and one simple question: Is the Universe endless, yes or no? Simple question....
1. Lack of a ready explanation is not proof or evidence? If only you would tell some scientists this fact when they try to tell us that the universe was created by "nothing". The first cause of the universe was "nothing" according to your side. Where is the proof or evidence of that? You seem to apply a different standard to one side than to the other. Since all science is based on the laws of cause and effect, one side is ignoring this basic rule of science. 2. We humans see design everywhere? How about Christians see design everywhere. Scientists on your side see randomness everywhere. Is that more logical. 3. You seem to have a problem with Christians burning a few witches, the implication being that is where Christianity leads, but I don't see any "evidence" that you have any problem with communists,(read atheists), killing an estimated 130 million people in the twentieth century. Can we assume that is where atheism will lead? 4. I seem to hear over and over in the media and elsewhere that evolution is a "proven fact", but when there is more than a small number of facts, such as the gaps in the fossil record, the computation of probabilities for the evolution of life, etc., that contradict evolution, they are simply ignored. Then, of course, creationists are accused of ignoring evidence that they don't agree with. 5. Of course I saved the best for last. Science means knowledge, it doesn't mean anything else. Uh, that is until unbelievers decided to redefine the word to their world view that there is nothing else but the natural world, and thus science is only about nature, and thus the term natural sciences is used synonymously with science. This thereby enables them to claim that "anyone that believes in the supernatural is not a scientist". All this enabled by the mere changing of the meaning of a word, something your side is noted for. (like the word "gay", for instance.) So, Isaac Newton, and all the rest were not "real scientists" since they were all creationists. Too funny.
rather than go 'round and 'round greco-roman style define what you mean by god or "unlimited"? No need for a complete definition just a few attributes are ok.