What is this guy talking about? AMP

Discussion in 'Retail Brokers' started by hilmy83, May 25, 2022.

  1. MrMuppet

    MrMuppet

    how would you spoof with an order that is not even shown in the book because it's cancelled when it's not filled????
     
    #31     May 26, 2022
  2. schizo

    schizo

    Oh, it will show up... for a few seconds. It won't be very noticeable to the naked eyes but they'll get picked up by other bots.
     
    #32     May 26, 2022
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  3. Overnight

    Overnight

    More like milliseconds. I have seen it with my own eyes some years ago, when I was watching forward MGC contract months. It was the most curious thing. It may still be happening today on forward MGC, but I have not watched a ladder in years at that level of detail.
     
    #33     May 26, 2022
  4. schizo

    schizo

    You were able to pick up FOKs that vanish in milliseconds? Yeah, right. :D

    Anyway, sending FOK orders 1 at a time is not considered spoofing. But when you send 100s of laddered FOK at various price points, that's spoofing, period.
     
    #34     May 26, 2022
  5. Overnight

    Overnight


    Yes! I have seen it with my own eyes on the ladder in MT5! I wish I had recorded a video of it, but it was plain of day.

    The orders would flash very quickly above and below the current bid/ask in rapid succession. Exactly the same order size on both sides of the ladder. Blink-of-an-eye stuff. But it was there! No way to know if it was FOK or regular limit orders, because that does not matter. The orders came on, and then came off, in milliseconds.
     
    #35     May 26, 2022
  6. MrMuppet

    MrMuppet

    #36     May 26, 2022
  7. Overnight

    Overnight

    If this is all true, then why did AMP have a problem with FOK as suggested, if they do not show up on the book and therefore do not mean a disruptive practice as per Rule 575?
     
    #37     May 26, 2022
  8. schizo

    schizo

    A Fill or Kill (FOK) order is an order that is directed to be executed immediately at the market or a specified price or canceled if not filled.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fok.asp


    However, the point isn't whether the OP used a limit or FOK. It doesn't matter. It was about him sending and immediately cancelling large amounts of order which he never intended to execute in the first place. That's called spoofing.

    Edit: One more note. Even if he sends FOK at market, if he sends an order much larger than what is being printed in the order book, it will not get filled because, by definition, you need to fill the entire order or it gets cancelled.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
    #38     May 26, 2022
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  9. hilmy83

    hilmy83

    actually FOK is not acceptable order type in CQG desktop for limit orders. Just checked it. Probably why my orders keep coming and rejected over and over.
     
    #39     May 26, 2022
    VPhantom likes this.
  10. MrMuppet

    MrMuppet

    AMP does not have a problem, the exchange does. There are compliance checks run in the background to make sure the client plays by the exchanges rules. That's why AMP flagged him
     
    #40     May 27, 2022
    shuraver likes this.