What is the historical evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died?

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by OddTrader, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. Wallet

    Wallet

    A simple question, Who was Jesus Christ?
     
    #321     Jan 20, 2020
    murray t turtle likes this.
  2. Good1

    Good1

    The prodigal "son" that found it's way home. He told the story himself. It's his story and its the story of all history, from BEFORE the "beginning" until the end of time. In telling his story he tells the whole story of mankind, how we "came down from heaven" and were "made flesh". In this way Jesus comes to represent (substitute for) all humanity, inasmuch as our fate (as well our history and very substance) is tied inextricably to his.

    At home he is "Christ", equal to the highest being in existence: Good.

    Away from home he appears as a person, either male or female, slave or free, Jew and Greek.

    I mean away from home he appears as everything that is not actually Christ: men, women, all nations, all races, all creeds...and also appears as the animals and "all manner of creeping things" (as Paul has said).

    It is self-deception that enables Christ, as the prodigal son, to "transform" (as Paul would say) into all manner of everything that is not actually Christ.

    Christianity, off the rails, tries to legitimize the transformation of Christ into all manner of beasts and creeping things...including people and nations. Jesus did not try to legitimize it. Instead he took responsibility for it (confessed to the sin of making the world), and showed us how to reverse (repent of) the situation (go back the other way...the way we came).
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
    #322     Jan 20, 2020
  3. Good1

    Good1

    Christ is what Jesus said about Good. Meaning, Christ is Jesus' description of Good, apart from what the Jews were saying about gOd.

    So you should spell it Jesus' Christ, as opposed to Wallet's Christ, or MurrayTurtles' Christ.

    You see, every body has a description of Good . Even good, with a small "g", you can ask ten people what is good and you'll get ten different descriptions.

    Likewise, ask ten people what is "reality" and you will get ten different descriptions. But that people are constantly talking about reality there is no question. Thus, people are always describing "Christ" to themselves and others.

    Jesus had his own description of what was Good and what was Real (Reality itself) in stark contrast to what the Jews had been saying for millennium.

    The Jews had a "Christ" as well: Their own version of what was good and real.

    It is Jesus' version that i consider to be authentic, amongst so many official stories propagated by mass media (the Jewish scriptures were like mass media in their day, presenting an official story).

    It so happens that what Jesus tried to describe is also what he was, IN TRUTH.

    But as a human being, Jesus realized he was a "lie" as much as everything else is a lie that is not actually appearing and experiencing the Reality/Truth/Reality/Truth that Jesus was describing.

    By demonstrating just how easily the body can appear and disappear, Jesus showed just how much of a "lie" the body actually is, and by extension everything that supports and gives rise to the body (by extension the gOd of this world).

    The gOd of this world is not ultimately to blame, even though it is very much implicated in the blame-game (framing Adam and Eve for it's own spiritual concupiscence).

    What is to blame is self-deception which is a psychological function. As it functions, it functions the same way a demon functions to take over one's mind and control the body. The casting out of demons is an experiential parable (the cross was also an experiential parable) that describes the bigger picture: the gOd of this world is like a demon that possesses the mind of Christ and, giving Christ a body (all bodies, including all manner of creeping things), seeks to own and control Christ, making a fool of Christ while at it. The gOd of this world not only gives Christ a body, but controls it's every move thereafter. The freedom of the body is an illusion, hence, we are "slaves to sin". Worse, in making the body, the gOd of this world DESCRIBES Good it's it's own opinion (imagination) re-making Good "in it's image". In so doing it "mocks" Good.

    In casing out demons, Jesus described just what he was doing in regards his own mind. The power to do so comes from identifying with a Being that had/has authority over the demon: Because it's very existence depended upon Christ's own self-deception.

    This, then, is the "way", if we were to follow Jesus example of self-liberation ("i have overcome the world"). We too must cast the gOd of this world out of our own minds as we get back authority by identifying with Christ as our true "Self".
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
    #323     Jan 20, 2020
  4. Good1

    Good1

    It has been said Jesus is the "second Adam". Indeed, he was also the first (alpha) Adam, inasmuch as Adam represents a pre-historic decision to be self-deceived...or not.

    As said already, Adam (all mankind) is a product of self-deception in the mind of Christ.

    Before Christ was "made flesh" (as well transformed into all manner of beasts and creeping things), there came a decision to make in regards to the qualities of Christ's SELF. The decision mainly comes down to: Accept Reality (Self,Truth) as it is, OR, re-imagine Good as something MORE.

    The MORE aspect is symbolized by the "knowledge of the tree of good and evil". Evil, whatever it is, is something MORE than Good. But because of the absolute nature of Good's qualities, MORE comes to represent something OPPOSITE (anti-Christ).

    The tree of the knowledge of good and evil symbolizes a psychological attempt to COMBINE the qualities of Good with an opposite, so as to obtain MORE than Good. Hence, the "devil" is said to have exalted itself ABOVE Good, but only ended up being "cast down to earth".

    First of all, there is no such thing as ABOVE Good/Christ/Reality/Truth/Self. Therefore, adding MORE to the qualities of Good results in a DOWNWARD TRAJECTORY, gaining "more" by TAKING AWAY FROM the qualities of Good, and ending up with LESS (remember the story of the prodigal son which ends up with less, as he seeks more).

    The seeking of MORE is the basis of the saying, "you may gain the whole world but you would lose your soul". This is saying that the making of gOd's world is about the prodigal son seeking MORE than what was offered in the original "kingdom" (Reality/Good/Self/Truth/Christ).

    More manifests as a combination of attributes in order to become more than Good. This is the motive underneath how Christ "came down from heaven" and "was made flesh". And so, you can look around an see just how every Yin is mixed with Yang in a world that combines opposites. This world is symbolized by the tree of the "knowledge of good and evil", which is an actual IMPOSSIBILITY.

    Being impossible, our world requires the use of IMAGINATION and FAITH to even seem to exist. Even so, it comes from a "void" (imagination and faith) and never exceeds imagination and faith in its existence.

    Because of the importance of imagination and faith to make this world even SEEM to exist, it comes as no surprise that knowledge is condemned in our world, from the very first chapter of it's STORY. If you took away the faith invested in this world, the mountains themselves would disappear, just as Jesus made his body disappear. The condemnation of knowledge is a self-condemnation inasmuch as Christ is knowledge itself (having omniscience).

    The eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the symbol of FAITH. That is, EATING and BELIEVING are symbolically interlinked. Believing in the ability to combine opposites together (to get more) is what causes the mind of Christ to transform Christ's spiritual nature into "flesh". The flesh is something that is believed.

    The world (gOd's world) is believed because it offers a chance to get MORE. Hence, all men are seeking something more. It is in regards this seeking that Jesus warns that even should we gain the whole world, we would lose our soul. That's because the world offers everything that is NOT (anti) Christ. And if we are Christ, then yes, we lose our "soul" (identity).

    By contrast, the world of Christ is something that is KNOWN (not believed).

    The world of Christ, and Christ's Self are the same thing. What can only be known can only be ACCEPTED AS IS. The world of man represents a rejection of what is (reality), and is why it is said that Christ was rejected in order to put down the foundations of the world (the "stone that the builders rejected").

    The world of opposites (a combination of opposites) is taken from the rib of Christ, so-to-speak, meaning it derives from something within Christ in a very unusual way. Take note, as the story goes, Adam was "asleep" during this part of the surgery. Meaning, in order to even allow for this transformation, Christ must somehow be "asleep", which is symbolism for IGNORANCE...which is a mental trick used to induce self-deception. Take note, no where in the story does it say Adam awoke from his sleep. It turns out that a world of opposites is something that can only be dreamed (imagined and believed in), and soon becomes a nightmare.

    It is in regard to this "sleep" that Paul quotes, "Awake all ye who sleep in Christ". Symbolically, a sleeping Christ is also a "dead Christ" ("she is not dead, she is only sleeping"). Hence, resurrection is about awakening from this very sleep. Paul himself admits one resurrects by identifying with Christ. This is exactly what Jesus did: identified his Self with Christ.

    The "enmity" between spirit and flesh is due to the foundational opposites of what these represent...and how they can never be "reconciled" (which is what the Pharisees and neo-Judaists are attempting to do). You could only reconcile these if you can manufacture a psychological milieu in which cognitive dissonance is somehow rationalized. Meanwhile, the flesh and spirit remain as opposite as faith (ignorance) versus knowledge, imagination versus reality. Opposites can not be reconciled except through faith. This is why i say that faith is insidiously evil in it's original functionality.

    Beware any religion that depends on the death of Christ for it's salvation...or some combination of death and life (a combination of opposites) which requires faith (ignorance/rejection of the absolute nature of Life) in order to reconcile.

    Life is absolute, symbolized by the long forgotten "tree of life". It does not die, or add death to it's collection of characteristics. There is a choice to be made between these two now, just as there was a choice before the foundations of gOd's world were laid. You can know what is, or you can believe what isn't (the other tree).
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
    #324     Jan 20, 2020
  5. Good1

    Good1

    Jesus was someone who explained that everything you have as a person, was taken away from Christ in order to lay the foundations of your world (which is more like a psychological bubble than an actual reality) .

    The "Lord's Supper" is a parable that explains just this. It is the sacrifice of Christ (the original reality) that enables the unreal bubble that we call home to even seem to exist. It is at the expense of Christ that we "live" as we do (we don't actually live).

    As such, the "devil" is a "thief", having taken away from what is Christ's to command it's own fiefdom (thief-dom). Christ is the "stone that the builders rejected", in reference to those gOd's who made a neo-world-order in their ("elohim") own image (multiplicity), they being "many".

    As such, Christ died for the "many"...before the foundations of gOd's world.

    This is reluctantly admitted in the book of "revelation" which lets it slip that the "lamb of gOd" was "slain before the foundation of the wOrld".

    In sacrificing himself, in parable, Jesus explained just how the wOrld we seem to live in came into apparent existence out of the "void" (total nothingness).

    A wOrld built upon imagination (made "in the image of") does indeed depend upon the "death" of reality, being anti-reality by nature. If Christ and Reality are the same thing, then those of us who depend on the continuation of a wOrld built upon the sandy foundation of imagination (+faith) depend upon the death of Christ for our very "existence" as tentative as that may be. Because it is tentative, we are in constant need of the death of Christ, hence, the popularity of the Lord's Supper amongst the believing faithful.

    The nature of Reality, however, being always alive (Life itself), prohibits the existence of anything else (other "gods" besides Good). If something wishes to differentiate itself from Life, in the seeking of something more, it must "die". As such, we become the unwitting substitutes for Christ, who continue to die. For this reason it is unwise to partake of the Lord's Supper without understanding. Without understanding, death is perpetuated. With understanding, we have a choice to make...and in making the choice, we might have the eternal Life Jesus spoke of.

    It is not Christ who substitutes for us. It is we who substitute for Christ, and die in the process, as a result. There is no future for substitutes...and it is dangerous. How do we substitute? Really, anyone claiming to be "alive" or to have a "life" substitutes for Christ (these are Christ's attributes that we have taken as our own). It's safe if you are Christ, dangerous if you are not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
    #325     Jan 20, 2020
  6. Good1

    Good1

    In summary, if you try to combine "Christ" with "Jesus" you step further into a world ruled by the rationalization of cognitive dissonance symbolized by the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    One must use discernment (basic honest philosophy) to see that flesh and spirit are irreconcilably different.

    Nevertheless, it is mankind's constant endeavor, in cooperation with the gOd of it's wOrld, to hold opposing propositions in one mind, believing in the impossible through faith.

    The tree of the knowledge of good and evil symbolizes a mind that is split, and yet endeavors to hold itself together to produce one, single "fruit". Believing this is possible is the equivalent of eating of this tantalizing fruit, only to find out it is psychological poison.

    In this way, we remain complicit in what makes the wOrld to begin with, and by our faith, perpetuate it's impositions upon the World Of Christ which came before the "beginning".

    Jesus overcame the wOrld by withdrawing his faith from it, and seeking knowledge of Christ instead, found that Christ is a Self that is suffering while the wOrld is imposed upon the Self's shoulders like a heavy cross.

    Jesus showed how to get through the experience unharmed, and return to one's original condition/home: Christ.

    The tree of the knowledge of good and evil "reconciles" opposites that endanger each other's existence, just as reality endangers imagination, awakening endangers dreams, and life endangers death.

    Traditionally, symbolized by the Pharisees, and perpetuated by the neo-Judeo priesthood, man endeavors to reconcile psychologically incompatible concepts in keeping with the mission of the gOd of this world.

    This is the agenda, that obscures, buries, and kills the message offered by Jesus (the parable of the messenger). We all share this agenda, which makes anything he says hard to understand. It is not so hard to understand, except when a mind continues to rationalize the irreconcilable. There is no such thing as 100% Christ, and 100% man. This is a self-serving interpretation with an agenda to legitimize our enfleshment.

    The future of hell is simply this: if you think what you've always thought, you'll get what you've always got. Believing what hell has to offer is it's own worst punishment.

    In the end, we will value Spirit over flesh, as truth (reality), and no longer seek to rationalize a combination of mortal enemies.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
    #326     Jan 20, 2020
  7. stu

    stu

    He was a super hero in an ancient story book

    [​IMG]
     
    #327     Jan 21, 2020
  8. %%,%%%%%%%
    King + King of Kings, Lord of lords;
    my LORD+ Lord of Angel Armies. And more than that......; he is A-Z......................................................................................................................:caution::caution:
     
    #328     Jan 21, 2020
  9. Is believing in yourself the same?
     
    #329     Jan 22, 2020
  10. some nobody, that rose from the dead, just somebody...
     
    #330     Jan 22, 2020