What is "The Grail" to you?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Raystonn, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. Most of us have heard of "The Grail". It is a trading indicator or system that, per examination of the context of the term's use, would make us more successful than we could ever have imagined.

    My question to you: What are your minimum requirements of an indicator or system that would allow you to call it "The Grail"? To rephrase, What is "The Grail" in your eyes?

    This is not a question of whether or not it currently exists, or ever will for that matter. I am just curious how wildly differing our definitions of "The Grail" are.

    So, what is your opinion?

  2. It would have to consistently make 4 to 14 points a day, trading just 100 shares.
  3. For stocks the compount curve has .10 or the profit/cycle and the power is 60 per year.

    On the intraday ES 20 to 40 actions that net 3 times the H-L. Days per year is about 200.

    the 165 days off per year are not spent on the markets

    Most of the profits and some spare time are pulled or put for use in local community support or national or international proven operations.
  4. Most of profits and time is spent on admiring the pretty Ladies in the world. ..........:cool: :cool: :p :)
  5. So far the consensus (if you can call it that from the small number of replies thus far) is for consistent significant profits on small margin every single day. I would call this a daytrading grail consensus. The need for profits everyday would likely not apply to swing traders or those trading for wealth rather than income.

    Thanks for the replies so far... keep 'em coming!

  6. the stock comment is for position trading. .10 is 10% and the 60 is a consequence of holding for several days about 60 times a year. Position trading is interday and the commodities is intraday.
  7. The grail is a system with a high frequency of trading, a high win% rate, a high profit factor, with a very smooth equity curve, a high yearly return, which works in very liquid markets, and who's edge never fades with time.
  8. That's a pretty good definition. If you take "high frequency" to be relative to a particular style of trading, then it could work for both daytraders and swingtraders.

    I also very much like the requirement that the edge never fade over time. That almost screams for a system or indicator that has a built-in walk-forward optimization engine.

    The only problem is with use of the word "never". Any statement using that word cannot be proven without infinite time. Thus, you could never prove you really had a grail system or indicator, even if everything else looked great.

  9. If we're talking about a "Grail" lets have a "Grail". My "Grail" would have to work in all markets, all time frames, all the time, forever. No losers, EVER. If there is one single loser then the system has flaws. The "Grail" has no flaws. It would have to be easy for anyone to understand and implement, even a person that never made a single trade in their life. It would be easily programable into an automated system,( if I chose to do so), so that I would never have to do anything but watch my acount grow. There would be zero difference between manual and auto trading with the "Grail". Sounds absurd, doesn't it? Hence, the reality that there is no "Grail". It would have to be perfect in every way to every person that saw it. Given the reality that "perfection" can be a realitive term would futher complicate what a "Grail" would really consist of.
    Interesting though, that it appears from the posts, people would accept less than perfection from what by definition would have to be a perfect system.
  10. I'm not sure the definition of the Grail in fact requires perfection. That's one of the reasons I started this thread, to nail down a definition. However, the term does sound like it should encompass perfection when first heard.

    I believe most unsuccessful traders are looking for a system or indicator that will make them successful, period. The requirement here is only that it earns them money when executed. Is that the Grail? I wouldn't label it as such. Would that be sufficient as to stop most of these traders from searching for a Grail? Probably.

    The biggest hurdle to a trader is to move from a consistent loser to a consistent winner. There are many who would give their left deadbolt to achieve this. To them, they may call any system that works a Grail. To those already experiencing success, the bar is inevitably much higher.

    #10     Aug 24, 2006