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What is Logical?

Discussion in 'Strategy Building' started by ubertuber, Jan 21, 2009.

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Sushi
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Stevebg. Thanks for the post. Tthats what this thread needs. Actual statements from those using this sistem.

#101 Feb 8, 2009

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Quote from Sushi:

Stevebg. Thanks for the post. Tthats what this thread needs. Actual statements from those using this sistem.
More...

Oh yeah?#!

Well then here's another one:

PROFLOGIC REVIEW #2

Trouble in Paradise

"logicmaster of proflogic etc... : stochastic with special parameters --> wanted money afterwards too"

#102 Feb 9, 2009

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And another:

PROFLOGIC REVIEW #3

Quote from wdscott:

Hi DTB,

Personally, I paid $300 to see if the Professor had any market insights I could use. I consider myself a student of the markets and $300 is cheap tuition. Proflogic had made very articulate responses in his ET threads and I paid up. I read his end of day posts, subscribed to Ensign charting, and watched the ERG indicator real-time for about 4 weeks. For me at least, it was all hindsight trading. The ERG indicator turns from red to blue to red again and is way to slow. Prime Levels are known way after the fact. In fact, all turns are recognized way after the fact.

His rules change. And I was never able to replicate the mechanical trades posted on his website. And his chat room did not provide any real-time trade entries. In my opinion, real time signal calls are critical to learning a new methodology. Trade entries were very unclear for me.

Last month when I declined to sign the professors Non-Disclosure Document, I was denied further access. I wish I would have known about that Non-Disclosure qualification before I initially paid up, I wouldn't have subscribed in the first place.

No biggie. I simply will not sign any document, which could cloud any future plans in this business with lawsuits. (In a patent lawsuit, the defendant has to prove he did not infringe on any copyrights, a difficult task). How can one disprove markets do not make higher highs and higher lows.

He is an excellent writer, highly intelligent, extremely articulate and very aggressive with his responses to valid ET member questions.

But I still do not know whether he can trade successfully with his methodology. Only Brokerage statements can tell you that. Maybe he is successful. I will never know.

For me at least, it was a very confusing month.

Best Regards,
Dave

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Real ProfLogic Review #3

#103 Feb 9, 2009

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And another:

PROFLOGIC REVIEW #4

Quote from Duey Decimal:

Makogsu,

You seem like a sincere individual. I will address some of your comments, hopefully with equal respect.

I don't think ET members take issue with someone charging for information, per se. I have stated here on this thread that I felt the insight gained from the membership has been worth more than $300 to me (if not the methodology) -- it changed the way I looked at trading.

Vendors such as Brandon post freely here -- he's upfront about his charges and welcomes questions and criticism.

Bill Schamp ('the Logicmaster'), IMHO, continues to be disingenuous about his charges. While he continues to insist he has closed membership to his website, what he has in fact done (it seems) is closed membership to any new $300 comers, and will only let you in if you pony up $3,000 for a "seminar". I have not been quoted the $3,000 seminar price by Bill, and have only seen it here on this thread. I assume it is accurate.

In a picture he emailed to his website members, he claims to have done 2 seminars last week or two in Singapore. He sent out a picture of one, and, from memory, I'd say there were about 12-15 students. At $3,000 a pop -- that's about $45,000. If his second seminar was of equal size... you get the point.

I don't have a problem with him making money, but why does he continue to dodge the issue instead of being up-front about it? Insisting he's no longer a vendor, when in fact he's only upped the ante? If I'm wrong, and the seminars are for free, let him come here and say so. But otherwise, he continues, and in fact has increased, his vendorship.

You claim a number of people on his site do better than his posted results. Really? He, so far this year, has had 2 losing trades, one for 1 point, the other for 2. Have the traders who are bettering him not lost any points at all, on any trade this year?

He tends to bash those who claim his mechanical results aren't replicable -- claiming they are loser traders. From the PM's I've gotten, I have consolation that at least I'm not the only loser.

A sample PM: "Good post. I am a member of the prof's room. I have had some good days using the system, also had some crappy ones.

I agree with your comments about the system. I do think there seems to be something there, but when I talk to Bill he makes it seem so easy, but when I ask specific questions on when to enter a trade I can never get a reason that makes sense to me.

He makes it seem like anyone can see price failure, but when you ask for specific points of price failure in real time, I have never seen an example. Maybe I am missing something?"

Another: "He referred me to one of the participants in the room who lives in my neighbor hood and he makes still no money after been in his room for 9 months. If it is that simple then this person "would have got it" by now."

You claim that if questions were approached respectfully, things would be more productive... I challenge you to find a post in which I've have asked "disrespectful" questions to Bill. Now look at his responses. My opinion: He likes to keep things vague, because he is a theorist, without a mechanical system that works. That too would be fine -- in fact that is exactly what I got from him -- if he didn't continue to claim that his results were in fact based on completely mechanical entries and exits. When he is pushed to the wall on the mechanics, he lashes out.

I eagerly await your response, or his.
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Real ProfLogic Review #4

#104 Feb 9, 2009

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Quote from MandelbrotSet:

Oh yeah?#!

Well then here's another one:

PROFLOGIC REVIEW #2

Trouble in Paradise

"logicmaster of proflogic etc... : stochastic with special parameters --> wanted money afterwards too"
More...

I see you just got off your job. How was the convenient store today? Busy?

Nice link . . . almost 3 year old incorrect information but that doesn't bother you posting inaccurate misinformation. (I use the Ergodic which is about as far from a Stochastic as you are a trader) (No special parameters, we share openly) That is your norm though.

Started drinking yet bud?

#105 Feb 9, 2009

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And another:

PROFLOGIC REVIEW #5

Quote from opm8:

Well, I gave up $300 for access to Prof's site and I can say conclusively it's been a colossal waste of my time.

Here's why:

-Like others have said he flip-flops on his "perfect rules" all the time. Maybe he's settled on a system for now but I guarantee he'll change it in a month or two. Since September his rules have changed three times, all major revisions, barely recognizable from the last iteration. He's constantly making changes.

-His rules are convoluted to the point that you can interpret them however you like. "Simple" is the last word I'd use to describe them. "Perfect" is a joke, in this regard. Bill, however, makes it sound like it's a one-sentence system that any ol' idiot can follow.

-What he says in the chatroom is unbelievably vague. Definitely not too close to what his rules pages say (which, by the way, have gaping holes regarding entries and exits). If you question him or a "system" entry he flies into a rage instantly and brow-beats you. If you ask him to post a live trade he'll go off on you for 15 minutes straight. All the while he's implying you're a complete idiot for not understanding his "perfect" and "simple" rules. He never has and never will post a single live trade.

-NOT A SINGLE PERSON in the chat room makes money. I've PM'd countless people in the room and they all say the same thing. "Still learning," "not sure of the entries," etc. I signed up for the website in Sep/04, and the chat room has been open since about Feb. If the system were actually simple, people would be making money by now. Someone would be. They're not.

On the plus side, he is rather generous with his time, accepting phone calls to help anyone with trading. Now that he's charging several thousand a pop for his seminar, though, it all makes "perfect" sense to me.

I don't believe Bill trades the system he teaches (if he trades at all). He claims he only goes for 2 points a day and then has a neat little section on his site that spells out how riches can be yours if you scale up your contract size while making 2 pts a day. If that were the case Prof should be worth in the 9 figure range, having supposedly traded this way for a decade. Bill is full of BS.

Prof has been around ET for a long time and has been part of countless threads. Usually, people attack him and his methods. How come no one has EVER stepped up and said "yes, I've learned Bill's system and make money with it." Shit, I'd be all over anyone like a rabid dog who dared question Bill's qualifications if I had made money using his ideas.

The one thing I thank him for is a relatively cheap lesson in snake oil sales. I know that I will not learn trading from someone selling something. Since leaving this crap behind the system I've worked out for myself, with no one's help, is coming along very nicely. Thanks, Bill! Hope you make lots of money from your seminar suckers.

--opm8

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Real ProfLogic Review #5

#106 Feb 9, 2009

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Quote from MandelbrotSet:

And another:

PROFLOGIC REVIEW #4

Real ProfLogic Review #4
More...

Did you mention to read the entire thread or would you prefer cherry picking as your norm.

Another now almost 4 year old thread of more unsubstantiated information. You truly have no life Manny. You need a girlfriend or boyfriend . . . whatever your preference. Boyfriend I would presume.

Your projectionist attitude is a real problem. I could recommend a good psycologist in the City for you that is state funded if that will help you out?

#107 Feb 9, 2009

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And another:

PROFLOGIC REVIEW #6

Quote from dpanic:

pretty much agree for the most part. I also antied up the $300 fee to see what the "logic" method was about and can't say that I got much more than $300 worth of value from it. I certainly would not attend one of his seminars. I don't think that one can take the perfect rules and really be profitable however if you're willing to think for yourself and take some of the concepts Bill presents and devise your own trading plan with rules for trade management on whatever your time frame is there there is some value in the concepts he has documented.

I'm not sure too many in his chat room are profitable other than this mystical Randy person who they always talk about who makes almost as much $ as Bill but never joins the room. I visit occasionally and as others have stated I've received pm's from other members who were frustrated and having a very tuff time. Maybe there are silent participants making money but nobody posting profitable real time entries/exits and Bill does not discuss trading setups as they occur in real time. He likes to rant/rave alot which I find totally distracting so very seldom will I enable the voice component of the chatroom. I had voice enabled at one point and he was carrying on and my wife overheard, her comment was 'my god he's obnoxious'! pretty much sums it up
More...

Real ProfLogic Review #6

#108 Feb 9, 2009

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Quote from MandelbrotSet:

And another:

PROFLOGIC REVIEW #6

Real ProfLogic Review #6
More...

Can I post a link to your parole officer Jimmy?

#109 Feb 9, 2009

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Wow, that's it folks.

And I'd say that's enough.

Notice five of the six reviews were brought to you by ET'ers (both past and present) who had been duped into taking ProfLogic's courses ... as members of this website?

Guess what kiddies, noobs and Gullible Gilligans, where there's smoke, there's fire.

You've been warned.

#110 Feb 9, 2009

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