basically, the profitable stock traders will tell you that futures are harder. the profitable futures traders will say not so. as a profitable futures trader (see pnl thread for my blotters from the past 3-4 months...except i did not trade today or yesterday due to rollover games) i will tell you that i was profitable trading stocks, but i make a lot more $ daytrading ES. Of course, that did not happen overnight, it took me a while to get the hang of the futures market. i would agree with many of the comments in this thread re leverage as a significant difference. but i think what is more important is finding the right match between ones personality and trading vehicle. For me, I much prefer daytrading ES over stocks. People who know me say it is because I have focused so much on one instrument that I have been able to understand it more then tracking a handful of stocks. That may or may not be true, but I do know I have figured out ways that help me determine if ES is in chop mode, or if it is the beg. of a directional move.....with stocks that was always harder for me. While in ES you are up against some of the very best traders out there so the competition is fierce, but it is also a fact that ES is a reflection of the broader market much more then a stock and does not trade on the whims of a MM, etc., which means for me it is easier to assess the broader market via internals (i believe part of my edge is in how i look at various internals) and therefore have more confidence in my entries. i am often able to capture a large part of the intraday move in a single trade by going all in and scaling out through out the day as price hits certain levels and watching for any change in relationship to the internals. I also understand that my style of ES daytrading is not typical.....most ES daytraders go for smaller wins and trade much more frequently then what I do. Someone once desrcibed me as position trader in a daytrading timeframe.
I got my ass kicked trading the eminis. In the past 6 months, I tried so hard..i mean, literally hard trying every thing all different strategies. I can say this about futures: "The market can remain irrational more than I can remain solvent." I have lost money despite the fact that I am right about the market direction. Just last week, Tim Knight of slope of hope (who makes like 20K to 30K a day!!!) mentioned in his blog that he will quit trading eminis since it is being manipulated.... If Tim Knight says that, do you think you can make money trading futures? A lot of times, i see futues don't go any where all day but see stocks moving and I am thinking "gee i wish i was trading stocks". Bottom line: I got RAPED in futures. And I am not some bad trader. I am a graduate of an ivy league school and have been trading on and off since 2000. I cannot claim to be a lescor or EricP...but I am getting there.
I have to agree with you 100%. But tell me some thing, how does don miller make 1 million $ scalping eminis? he also runs a blog..if u want more info. Also, how does the flipper flips the bund futures? how does this other hot girl who was featured on wall street warriors and trader monthly magazine make so much money trading futures? i am trying to figure this magic myself.
If you have 10+ years of futures trading and are profitable, then would you mind starting a new thread and teaching us how you make money? I got my ass kicked trading eminis and I am so depressed.
This is what i think: If I had million $ and i am trading eminis, then I think, i will have the ability to withstand more "pain" and I will not be panicking evenn if there are bull shit moves..like the one that happened a few days back. The market doesnt always go in one direction..so even if you blindly trade, with a million dollar account, you can have a huge stop and book profits the moment you are green.
Oh man some of the comments. I don't know what you folks are doing at night but clearly its not research. Futures are simply different, offering different challenges to participants. There are many ways to profit in futures trading, one of the most direct is to learn to characterize your chosen market. Specifically you choose a market and you become an expert, learning everything there is to know about it. Next you learn to characterize the way the market "acts". You choose a specific behavior that you want to capture and with your hard earned expertise you figure out what the right tools are to get to your goal. Oversimplification? yep but the general idea is on target. Its a solvable problem, and to the extent that you break it into steps and approach it in a disciplined way, you maximize your chances of getting where you want to go. Yes there are winners and losers. Such is life.
Perhaps the market is just too efficient for you to earn a profit, given whatever methods/indicators/etc. are currently at your disposal. If it were manipulated or irrational, I think that there would be a profit opportunity there in itself, especially given the low slippage/high liquidity of eminis.
A chart is a particular way of displaying information that is COMMON TO ALL securities (OHLCV). That is, by DEFINITION, all charts look the same. Thus, I am puzzled what is the point you are trying to make.
If you think all charts look the same: 1) check your eyesight 2) check your internet connection 3) change the symbol at least once 4) goto 1