What is a better US Gov investment for Future - Military Spending or Infrastructure

Discussion in 'Politics' started by SouthAmerica, Aug 18, 2005.




  1. Those things are useless. The US would never actually use one. Wasted cash.

    How can anyone believe that we need MORE military spending? How the hell are we losing in iraq then???

    Were a gutless paper tiger.
     
    #21     Feb 3, 2007
  2. tj07

    tj07

    Why not? It has before, twice.

    I think there will probably be an arms race with china in the coming decades.
     
    #22     Feb 3, 2007
  3. i doubt it. china is smarter than to get bogged down in some meaningless arms race. they did witness what happened to their neighbor to the north afterall. their main priority is modernzing their infrastructure and raising their standard of living, which is quite visible to anyone who has visited the country over the past decade.

    there would be no winner from an arms race between china and the us. neither country could successful conquer each other and if somehow they were, then the conquered country would just go push their big red panic button and cause mutually assured destruction.

    both china and the usa knows this. the usa however, has too many private interests that would immensely benefit off such an arms race and would lobby strongly for it. just think about how much halliburton has made off the iraq war.

    and why wouldnt we use our nuclear weapons? if any other country launched a nuclear missle at the usa, you can be damn sure we'd return fire with 100 more.
     
    #23     Feb 3, 2007
  4. Great post. The only reason "Cheney" invaded Iraq, is so his buddies at Halliburton could clean up. There was NO reason to invade Iraq. As a matter of fact, saddam kept Iraq in order. Anyone who has studied history knows that part of the world is a mess. They will now be fighting each other for 50 years until some other dictator takes over. Meanwhile, AL qaeda now has thousands of new recruits to come hijack planes in the US. We have lost sight of the fact that a small band of radicals started all this; there is way too much money to be made fighting a "war" on terrorism. What a sad f'ing joke the aristocrats in this country are playing on the blind American public.
     
    #24     Feb 3, 2007
  5. toc

    toc

    Military spending is not a bad idea to keep bad elements in check globally but it seems US wastes a lot of funds in very impractical type military items.
     
    #25     Feb 3, 2007

  6. The US is not going to use a nuke because of 3000 dead US soldiers. Everyone acts like this is some kind of big number, its not.

    WWII had 48 MILLION DEAD. MILLION!!!

    Its not too hard to drop a nuke to end a war which caused the deaths of 48 *******MILLION********** people.

    But the US does not have the balls to drop a nuke for a few thousand dead soldiers.


    Aint gonna happen. Nukes are worthless to the US. They are political capital they cant afford. We will only us a nuke if someone launches a nuke at us first.

    Modern US wars are a joke compared to other US wars. Think we could ever get away with carpet bombing Dresden in this day and age? No way. We have to use "precision guided" hi-tech bombs, so we dont blast every civillian off the map.

    So instead we sacrifice american soldiers.
     
    #26     Feb 4, 2007
  7. .



    Tj07: I think there will probably be an arms race with china in the coming decades.


    *************


    February 4, 2007

    SouthAmerica: There will be a space race in the coming decades for sure.

    The American people have their mindset stuck in the Cold War – the Chinese in the meantime is preparing their country to fight a possible war of the future – from space.

    The Chinese will be able to finance their space program themselves – in the other hand where the United States is going to find money to finance the US program?

    When the Chinese start investing heavily on their defense program – including space program - most likely they are going to stop their charity work towards the United States. (The billions of US dollars that they have been sending to the US at very low interest rate to keep the US economy afloat.)

    By the way, only fool’s would talk about nuking anyone today – even starving North Korea has a supply of nukes that can put the US economy to its knees.


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    #27     Feb 4, 2007
  8. .

    February 4, 2007

    SouthAmerica: The United States wasted over $ 2.1 trillion dollars in defense spending during the 5-year period 2001 – 2005 most of the major economies around the world were investing their scarce resources wisely and they were building their economies for the future.

    Commonly known as infrastructure and relied on by millions of Americans daily, the nation's rapidly decaying facilities include highways, ...

    America is living precariously on the foresight of past planners and engineers

    Thoughtful public works planning and investment benefit all Americans

    Investing in public works is crucial for maintaining America's standard of living, growth, and international competitiveness

    National and state policy must cope with the mismatch between infrastructure needs and limited resources

    Crumbling infrastructure has a direct impact on your personal and economic health. Maintaining America's standard of living depends on your support!

    Congested highways, polluted beaches, overflowing sewers, corroding bridges, overcrowded schools. Maybe you've seen them on your way to work?


    ******


    ASCE – 2005 Report Card for America’s Infrastructure
    American Society for Civil Engineers – March 9, 2005


    The ASCE's concerns go well beyond roads and bridges to include school buildings, drinking water and waste treatment, dams, navigable waterways, aviation facilities and so on. As a whole, the association estimates that, somehow, we have to come up with $1.6 trillion over the next five years in order to bring the infrastructure to an "acceptable" level.


    Key Infrastructure Facts

    · Our nation's highways, transit systems, railroads, airports, ports and inland waterways drive our economy, enabling all industries to achieve the growth and productivity that has made America so strong and prosperous.

    · A USDOT study concludes that for each $1 billion of federal spending on highway construction nationwide, 47,500 jobs are generated annually. If we invested in our infrastructure at the level of $1.6 trillion over five years, as many as five million jobs would be created.

    Aviation

    · The FAA projects passenger growth at 4.3% a year through 2015, a 52% increase over 2005 demand.
    · The number of aircraft handled by air traffic control is expected to increase from 45.1 million in 2004 to 58.4 million in 2015.
    · Between $9-15 billion is needed annually to enable airports to meet the expected demand.

    Airport and Aviation Facts:

    · There are 510 U.S. airports with commercial service, accounting for 99.88% of passenger enplanements.
    · The number of runway incursions has decreased from a peak of 407 in 2001 to 324 in 2003.
    · In 2004, the FAA designated 3,344 airports as part of the National Plan of Integrated Airport Systems (NPIAS), including commercial service airports, reliever airports and selected general aviation airports.
    · The FAA sets a performance goal of ensuring that 93% of NPIAS airport runways are maintained in good or fair condition--in 2003, the FAA rated 75% as good, 21% as fair, and 4% as poor. At commercial service airports, the runways faired better, with 80% good, 18% fair, and 2% poor.
    · Accessibility--66% of Americans live within 20 miles of a commercial service airport.

    There is general consensus that maintaining the integrity of the national airport system requires continual updates and a steady and predictable flow of capital. The FAA has estimated that planned capital development of $9 billion annually is necessary to meet expanding demand. The Airport Council International (ACI) puts that number at $15 billion.

    Bridges

    · 27% of America's bridges--more than one in four--are structurally deficient or functionally obsolete.
    · A slab of concrete falling from the deteriorated Steinway Street bridge in Astoria, NY, in July 2004 critically injured a motorist on the parkway below. In Chicago, concrete 'rained down' from the 33rd Street Bridge, blowing out the tires on at least four vehicles passing below. Just two weeks earlier, concrete from another bridge crashed into the windshield of a car on Chicago's Interstate 57, injuring its occupants.
    · There are 590,750 bridges in the United States.
    · 31.2% of the nation's urban bridges are structurally deficient or functionally obsolete.

    FHWA estimates that it will take $9.4 billion a year for 20 years to eliminate all bridge deficiencies.

    In 2003 of the nation's 590,750 bridges 27.1% rated structurally deficient or functionally obsolete. However, it will cost $9.4 billion a year for 20 years to eliminate all bridge deficiencies. Long-term underinvestment is compounded by the lack of a Federal transportation program.

    Conditions

    As of 2003, 27.1% of the nation's bridges (160,570) were structurally deficient or functionally obsolete, an improvement from 28.5% in 2000. In fact, over the past 12 years, the number of bridge deficiencies has steadily declined from 34.6% in 1992 to 27.1% in 2003. The Federal Highway Administration's (FHWA's) strategic plan states that by 2008, less than 25% of the nation's bridges should be classified as deficient. If that goal were met, 1 in 4 bridges in the nation would still be deficient. There were 590,750 bridges in the United States in 2000; however, one in three urban bridges (31.2% or 43,189) was classified as structurally deficient or functionally obsolete, much higher than the national average. In contrast, 25.6% (118,381) of rural bridges were classified as structurally deficient or functionally obsolete.

    A structurally deficient bridge is closed or restricted to light vehicles because of its deteriorated structural components.

    It is estimated that it will cost $9.4 billion per year for 20 years to eliminate all bridge deficiencies. The annual investment required to prevent the bridge investment backlog from increasing is estimated at $7.3 billion. Present funding trends of state departments of transportation call into question future progress on addressing bridge deficiencies.

    Dams

    · Since 1998 the number of unsafe dams has risen by more than 33% to 3,500.
    · There were 29 dam failures in the past two years in the United States.
    · The Big Bay Lake Dam in Mississippi failed in March 2004, destroying 100 homes. The Silver Lake Dam in Michigan failed in 2003, causing $100 million in property damage and economic losses of $1 million per day.
    · Since 1998 the number of high-hazard potential dams has increased from 9,281 to 10,213. High-hazard potential dams are those dams whose failure would cause loss of human life or significant loss of property.
    · $10.1 billion is needed over the next 12 years to address all critical non-federal dams.

    Since 1998, the number of unsafe dams has risen by 33% to more than 3,500.

    While federally owned dams are in good condition, and there have been modest gains in repair, the number of dams identified as unsafe is increasing at a faster rate than those being repaired. $10.1 billion is needed over the next 12 years to address all critical non-federal dams--dams which pose a direct risk to human life should they fail.

    Conditions

    Like all man-made structures, dams deteriorate. Deferred maintenance accelerates deterioration and causes dams to be more susceptible to failure. As with other critical infrastructure, a significant investment is essential to maintain the benefits and assure the safety that society demands.

    In the past two years, more than 67 dam incidents, including 29 dam failures, were reported to the National Performance of Dams program, which collects and archives information on dam performance as reported by state and federal regulatory agencies and dam owners. Dam incidents are such events as large floods, earthquakes or inspections that alert dam safety engineers to deficiencies that threaten the safety of a dam. Due to limited state staff, many incidents are not reported; therefore, the actual number of incidents is likely to be much greater.

    The number of high-hazard potential dams (dams whose failure would cause loss of human life) is increasing dramatically. Since 1998, the number of high-hazard-potential dams has increased from 9,281 to 10,213, with 1,046 in North Carolina alone. As downstream land development increases, so will the number of high-hazard potential dams. As these dams often require major repair to accommodate more stringent inspection, maintenance and design standards, financial support for state dam safety programs must keep pace.

    Even more alarming, states presently report more than 3,500 "unsafe" dams, which have deficiencies that leave them more susceptible to failure. Many states have large numbers of unsafe dams, including Pennsylvania (725), New Jersey (583), and New Hampshire (357). Many state agencies do not report statistics on unsafe dams; therefore the actual number is potentially much higher.


    ***


    The report also covered in detail the following subjects:

    Drinking Water
    U.S. Power Grid
    Hazardous Waste
    Navigable Waterways
    Public Parks & Recreation
    Rail System
    Road System
    Schools
    Solid Waste
    Transit System
    Wastewater System


    Source: ASCE – American Society of Civil Engineers

    Founded in 1852, ASCE represented more than 137,000 civil engineers worldwide, and is America's oldest national engineering society. ASCE celebrated its 150th anniversary in 2002.


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    #28     Feb 4, 2007
  9. toc

    toc

    'America is living precariously on the foresight of past planners and engineers'

    DISAGREE to some extent. It is the NEOCONS since 2001 who have ffffuuuuccckkkkkedd up the US variables. Clinton left a strong and improving nation, but Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld and others brutalized the any and all aspects of US society they could influence. I have no respect for them and other Neocons.......they have made the civilized world vulnerable to various designs of terrorists, commiees, dictators and other psychopaths out there.
     
    #29     Feb 4, 2007
  10. .

    February 4, 2007

    SouthAmerica: Here is a part of the ASCE report that most Americans can associate with in one way or another regarding the form of transportation they use on a daily basis.

    In the age of “Global Warming” the US transportation system becomes an even more important subject for public debate.

    Most of the money mentioned on the report it is to maintain or repair most of the infrastructure that are already in place – we are not talking about making new investments to expand the system any further.


    Road System

    · 34% of America's major roads are in poor or mediocre condition.
    · 36% of America's major urban roads are congested.
    · Road conditions are a factor in an estimated 30% of traffic fatalities. There were 42,643 traffic fatalities in 2003 in the U.S.
    · Driving on roads in need of repair costs U.S. motorists $54 billion a year in extra vehicle repairs and operating costs--$275 per motorist.
    · Traffic congestion costs American motorists $63.2 billion a year in wasted time and fuel costs.
    · Americans spend 3.5 billion hours a year stuck in traffic.
    · Motor vehicle crashes cost U.S. citizens $230 billion per year, or $819 for each resident, for medical costs, lost productivity, travel delay, workplace costs, insurance costs and legal costs.
    · There is a balance of $16 billion in the Highway Trust Fund. These funds are derived solely from user fees.
    · New Mexico built a new 4-lane highway from Albuquerque to the Colorado state line, but Colorado does not have the money to build the last 14 miles to Durango.
    · A resident of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, says people drive in the left lane on the highway because the passenger lanes are so deteriorated.

    Poor road conditions cost U.S. motorists $54 billion per year in repairs and operating costs--$275 per motorist.

    Americans spend 3.5 billion hours a year stuck in traffic, at a cost of $63.2 billion a year to the economy. Total spending of $59.4 billion annually is well below the $94 billion needed annually to improve transportation infrastructure conditions nationally.

    While long-term Federal transportation programs remain unauthorized since expiring on Sept. 30, 2003, the nation continues to shortchange funding for needed transportation improvements.

    Conditions

    The nation is failing to maintain even the current substandard conditions, a dangerous trend that is affecting highway safety and the health of the economy. While passenger and commercial travel on our highways has increased dramatically in the past 10 years, America has been seriously under-investing in needed road and bridge repairs.

    Substandard road conditions are dangerous. Outdated and substandard road and bridge design, pavement conditions, and safety features are factors in 30% of all fatal highway accidents, according to FHWA. On average, more than 43,000 fatalities occur on the nation's roadways every year. Motor vehicle crashes cost U.S. citizens $230 billion per year, or $819 for each resident for medical costs; lost productivity; travel delay; and workplace, insurance and legal costs.


    Rail System

    · Class I railroads currently invest about $2 billion annually for improvements above and beyond repair and maintenance. At this level of investment, rail will lose freight market share over the next 20 years, as the industry will not be able to keep up with growing demand.
    · Shifting all freight currently carried by rail to trucks would cost shippers an additional $69 billion annually. This will result in higher prices for U.S. consumers and increased truck traffic on the nation's highways, requiring an additional $54 billion in highway funds over the next 20 years to maintain the roads.
    · To maintain current share of freight carried, and accommodate the anticipated increase in total freight carried, railroads would require $175 billion to $195 billion in investments over the next 20 years.
    · Three railroad bridges used by Amtrak in the Northeast Corridor will be closed within two years if not repaired, shutting down passenger travel on the busy New York to Boston route.

    For the first time since World War II, limited rail capacity has created significant chokepoints and delays. This problem will increase, as freight rail tonnage is expected to increase at least 50% by 2020. In addition, the use of rail trackage for intercity passenger and commuter rail service is increasingly being recognized as a worthwhile transportation investment.

    Congestion relief, improved safety, environmental and economic development benefits result from both freight and passenger market shifts to rail creating a rational for public sector investment. The freight railroad industry needs to spend $175-$195 billion over the next 20 years to maintain existing infrastructure and expand for freight growth. Expansion of the railroad network to develop intercity corridor passenger rail service is estimated to cost approximately $60 billion over 20 years. All told, investment needs are $12-13 billion per year.


    Transit System

    · An estimated 14 million Americans ride public transportation each weekday, with an additional 25 million using it less frequently, but on a regular basis.
    · Ridership increased by 21.3% between 1993 and 2002.
    · There are 614 local public transit operators serving urban areas, 1,215 operators serving rural areas and 3,673 operators providing specialized service.
    · Public transit systems operate 106,395 vehicles, control 10,572 miles of track and serve 2,825 transit stations.
    · Total capital spending from all funding sources was $12.3 billion in 2002; the FTA estimates that $20.6 billion is needed annually to improve the nation's transit systems to "good."

    Transit use increased faster than any other mode of transportation--up 21%--between 1993 and 2002. Federal investment during this period stemmed the decline in the condition of existing transit infrastructure. The reduction in federal investment in real dollars since 2001 threatens this turnaround. In 2002, total capital outlays for transit were $12.3 billion. The Federal Transit Administration estimates $14.8 billion is needed annually to maintain conditions, and $20.6 billion is needed to improve to "good" conditions. Meanwhile, many major transit properties are borrowing funds to maintain operations, even as they are significantly raising fares and cutting back service.


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    #30     Feb 4, 2007