What if Karen the Super Trader had an effective hedge?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Sweet Bobby, Sep 1, 2018.

  1. sle

    sle

    You are a saint, dude!

    If I remember correctly, you are selling options in the 25-delta range? If that's so, simply shorting delta would not work, since a big portion of your risk is the gamma that you are short. In fact, being short delta against these things is very likely to generate losses (or wipe out profits) in a bull market.

    There are several choices. First of all, you can try buying back the wings and thus define the loss. That would, of course, significantly reduce your profits, but also would make the worst case scenarios more palatable - so you'd go from a Black Swan event to a Gray Goose event. Second of all, you can try to find some form of proxy hedges, like buying VIX calls or buying cheaper puts on stocks/ETFs that you expect to get slammed in a crash. It's a lot more involved, but if you play the game correctly you can find ways to even make money in the crashes. You can use that statistical inference that you'll be a master of to figure out what are good related hedges.

    Well, see above :D I have to assume that the whole "let's help Karen" thing is a proxy for "let's help me support my adopted kids", which is why I am happy to get involved.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2018
    #41     Sep 1, 2018
    positive etc and samuel11 like this.
  2. Finally someone who has a meaningful post. Thank you!
     
    #42     Sep 1, 2018
  3. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    Dear reader, if you wonder, why did she do it? Wonder no more. The answer is from the reddit link:


    ">>She just should have owned up to the loss and kept making money.

    >I don't think there was any way to do that. Her fund was performance fee only and high-water mark, if the loss was big enough and she took it she would have zero income perhaps for years."
     
    #43     Sep 1, 2018
  4. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    And this is what we get from a PhD...

    Show me the money!!! I mean show me the link! No link, no return, no service!

    By the way an hour ago she had 100 MM no she has suddenly 300MM*? That is some fast money baby!!

    *after I pointed out that 100MM for her is a step down
     
    #44     Sep 1, 2018
  5. sle

    sle

    Honestly, we are we talking here about Karen at all? I don't know what she was doing but it certainly sounds very fishy and not worth discussing. On the other hand, figuring out an effective hedge a short vol portfolio is an interesting topic. If in the course of the discussion we produce ideas that would help SB upgrade his prison van, that it would be totally awesome.
     
    #45     Sep 1, 2018
    Sweet Bobby and Pekelo like this.
  6. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    Selling tinies and collecting fees only on realized gains while pushing unrealized losses out forever.

    I posit that if you are in the business of selling index vol tinies, there is no hedge in the equity vol space that will cost less than that and likely there is not hedge in another asset class that would be less expensive. The only strategy you can employee to not blow up would be some kind of stop loss.
     
    #46     Sep 1, 2018
    Pekelo likes this.
  7. sle

    sle

    I thought Bobby was legging 25ish delta strangles? Do I remember wrong?
     
    #47     Sep 1, 2018
  8. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    Well, OP made an unsupported claim in the first post, not to mention he is upping the stakes, so asking for evidence is in order. I think he simply has reading comprehension issues, apparently not taught in PhD classes. (after several readings he still thinks the government doesn't understand rolling)

    But I agree, we have 2-3 different topics going on, not to mention his offtopic personal attacks. And as a good cult member, he is unable to acknowledge that the dear leader can be at fault.

    And yes, hedging the original Karen strategy itself is an interesting topic. I tend to agree with newwurld, because of the penny nature of the gains, there isn't much possibility of hedging except getting out quickly when the position turns sour. Otherwise the hedge takes away too much of the gains...
     
    #48     Sep 1, 2018
  9. #49     Sep 1, 2018
  10. And really??? Another way to look at this would be that some of us are expending more meaningful thought than trying to find something cheaper than a hedge on the cheapest hedge there is. Point in case:

     
    #50     Sep 1, 2018