Come on man! Look at the e-miny crude. This kind of things has been happening for a long time. 2-3 bucks spike in a minute only to come back down. I know u've been caught, but is part of the game. The dude who took your trade at 604 are taking risks. How the hell does he know it is not real selling? In hindsight, of course the guy who took your 604 is a genius. What if the thing didnt come back up and falls by another 20 bucks? Remember, you never know which market is leading which. The COMEX could drop to 600 right after he took your 604.
I wont bore the audience with my story of a COMEX gold option trade busted back to me 2 days after the COMEX floor and my broker confirmed the trade......
E-miNY , so you are another one of these shining trading stars we all admire for sharing their invaluable observations : âThis kind of things has been happening for a long time.â Congratulations ! And then : âI know u've been caught, but is part of the game.â - Brilliant ! I can learn a lot about what is part of the game and what is not. Like exchanges that don´t take action were action is due. Admirable how sharply you resolve that I may have lost money here. Can you separate a $20 spike from a $2-3 ? Are your capable to differentiate overnight markets from daytime markets ? You think the exchange should allow for the overnight market to move by $20 > 3% in 7 seconds (6:38:49am to 6:38:56am), far away from fair value, be it an error or be it on purpose ? You also disagree to countermeasures being set up against trading errors and manipulation ? Or do you think current computer technology would not stand up to such a complex task of making an e-market an orderly fair market ? And you further think that this event should be considered part of a normal fair market that everybody will have to live with ? Don´t take that so lightly or tell me or others to do so â unless you know what you are talking about, and my impression is you don´t
never seen anythin' even close to that crap on crude. and if it happens it's for a good reason like inventories or else.
It happened so fast, I could not grab the lows Only thing close I could find at that time was copper and china noise. I have seen spikes in the past finally traded back to. Just one example is ES finally came to 1398 after spiking there like 2 or 3 weeks ago on a sunday open. Small spikes happen all the time in YM and EUR, GBP My experience has been these spikes will get traderd, it just that we dont know when. I am waiting for that 604. Hope its not a long wait. Good luck - Zero
To Gunter K @ Commodity Trading Discussion Forum , I completely disagree with you that this spike on Nov 13th in ZG is made of legitimate trades. Simply because something has been executed on a computer exchange and a number of transactions have been registered in a database that can be tracked back and charted is neither proof nor hint that these transactions are valid or legal. My understanding is that a trade is a mutual agreement, where both parties freely and voluntarily agree on the basis of a common understanding of clear unfalsified conditions and true statements. A unrealistic market price far away from fair-value in a thin overnight market is not providing the basics of unfalsified conditions and true statements ! A stop placed in any exchange traded instrument is placed under the implied condition that an execution should occur only when the market is trading at that price under regular fair market conditions and not on any artificial spike - that is what is being agreed with the placement of a stop order - and NOT : I want an execution if any screen shows any arbitrary price, no matter what ! The definitions for artificial spikes are found in CBOT's regulations. Everyone placing orders on a regulated exchange may rely on the exchange to make all necessary provisions that will assure an orderly market with fair balancing of offer and demand. That includes provisions to prevent market disruption by large orders in thin overnight markets. So I can assure you that my trade on this spike was not executed under the conditions I had agreed upon â I therefore will challenge it. Further, if a trade is a result of an illegal action (manipulation or even fraud) or is a result of an unintended technical malfunction at the exchange it would never become a valid transaction in the first place. The problem is, you cannot tell from T&S or from the sequence whether any of this has happened and an investigation will have to uncover this. You wrote : > Had the exchange busted any or all of these legitimate trades, it would have put us back into the stone ages. I believe in the exact contrary â not busting the trades is a remainder of the stone age. Read my other posts again, where I layout, why. On orderly market is a modern and desirable concept, demanded by the vast majority of market participants. You wrote : >Traders who deal in electronically traded contracts need to be aware of the weaknesses of electronic exchanges. During quiet trading hours, electronically traded contracts are an easy target for people who want to push prices around. No, in contrary, never before were markets so well regulated and providing an equally fair environment than with modern e-markets â that is not a weakness, but robust strength. The fact that errors and artificial spikes are possible only demands for provisions to avoid them. Your proposal is to accept a faulty process and leave it alone - I don´t agree ! I trade many markets overnight, and most of them have become quite reliable, not letting gamers move them around at will. It takes good marketmakers and strict enforcement of trade bust rules. You wrote : >A trader who cannot deal with this, should not be trading these vehicles. I agree ! But don´t worry about my loss, its just one of many other losses I take every week and by far not the worst one. But being able to deal with it also means that you are prepared to challenge illegal or unfair trades, or errors of your broker. But of course, you are part of the industry and I should not expect any support from you on this - it cannot be in your interest that people stand up and demand adjustments. You wrote >I personally rather deal with this problem, than have the exchange bust trades anytime they feel like it. So if someone steels money out of my pocket (breaking the rules) while looking in my face (misusing trust), I should deal with it personally and should not ask it back. I am afraid I am not that blessed. But this spike is a fundamentally different scenario. It might be a resident problem that is to be resolved, not an individual case. By the way, they did indeed not bust the trades, just because they felt like it, and that despite their $4 trade bust rules. That brings me to another point. Anybody executing trades outside the bust range of $4 (in ZG) must consider that they are likely to be canceled â that is fair â and is a clear statement giving sufficient warning for anybody trading there. Anybody looking for reliable trades, don´t trade in the bust-zone ! Because next time I will again pursue the trades to be busted. A trader who cannot deal with this, should not be trading these vehicles ! Finally I join you on that : anything we write and post here are our personal opinions and nothing more or and nothing less.
2 weeks ago, the S&P's on Globex had a similar spike to 1399.00 on a Sunday nite.... so far as I can tell, all of those trades were made good............... it looked like a mis entered limit order, no other reason as to why anyone would have run it up 20 S&P points on no news...........an AH to boot............ strangeness..............
hi. i used to make a living just watching gold/silver in the aussie/asian hours.a $2-3 malfunction was common,but now thats not a big move.the problem is it doesnt happen every night and can get old in hurry sitting there watching nothing move..i'm sure a good automated system might work but that might have been the problem with $20 screw up.a robot malfunction.cause didnt all the active months drop?
i've been there e-miny.i thought i was getting a great trade only to watch blow through and keep on selling.thats the risk i took screwing around in thin markets.thats the way it goes.comex then sold off.of course after i covered it reverted right back to where it stared.lol.someone wanted out and that was that.
So? What difference does it make what you "understand"? If you put in stops because you can't sweat the risk of the market you're trading, then you assume the risk of them being run. The guy who measures his risk and makes stops elect is just shaking weak hands, which is part of the price discovery process. Grow the fuck up.