What happened to 12 million BTC?

Discussion in 'Crypto Assets' started by long, Apr 4, 2022.

  1. RedDuke

    RedDuke

    All great points. My main point was should there be a need/reason 21 million max can be changed. Above confirms it. Just like Ether is being changed from POW to POS. very difficult but possible. I do not agree with turning internet off comparison.
     
    #51     Apr 5, 2022
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  2. johnarb

    johnarb

    Cannot prove a negative

    I read fooled by randomness, also black swan

    Ethereum is more centralized, with the Ethereum Foundation and Vitalik and company in-charge, look at what they recently did with EIP-1559

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    I do agree with you that it is not a fair comparison to turning off the internet, as we know where those backbone routers are physically located

    We do not know where the millions of Bitcoin nodes are or all of the Bitcoin miners and more importantly, new nodes can be created at a moment's notice and same is true with new miners, so....

    The goal is always moving wrt Bitcoin
     
    #52     Apr 5, 2022
  3. NoahA

    NoahA

    Everyone is telling you it can't be changed, and you keep saying it can. Its up to you to show us how. The fact that its gone 13 years with the smartest people working on it who haven't been able to crack it is pretty damn proof enough for me.

    But here is a fun fact I learned from Andreas. Did you know that the 21 million limit isn't even built into the code? There is no mention of what the maximum is. You keep thinking that someone just goes in, changes the 21 million number and poof, we have more coins. The way you get to 21 million is because of the halving. With each subsequent halving, less and less coins get added. You get to a point where adding fractions of a coin just don't add up enough to break this barrier.



    Same thing, but years earlier, and the last 2 questions answered are quite thought provoking. I think if you watched more Andreas videos, you wouldn't be stuck in your doom and gloom state.

     
    #53     Apr 5, 2022
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  4. RedDuke

    RedDuke

    Great videos thank you. We all choose to believe what we want to believe. My whole point is that it is technically possible and the effort would not be equal to turning off internet or making USA communist nation.

    I am algo trader and I want to trade real thing. BTC price is so distorted by fake money that it is impossible to have true price discovery. The real price could be fraction of current valuations. Why do you think SEC keeps rejecting spot ETF, main culprit is fake money aka unaudited stable coins.

    The longer this fraud allowed to exits the harder will be the crash.
     
    #54     Apr 5, 2022
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  5. NoahA

    NoahA

    You're welcome. Its like Saylor says, anyone who has spends 100 hours studying BTC will see the light. I feel like watching Andreas is the right kind of education. And he is honest about how it can also fail too.

    Andreas said very clearly. If you change the code, you fork it. Now who will support this new forked Bitcoin? If nobody supports this new code, its as good as dead. This is in fact why I'm so bullish on BTC. The fact that the hashrate keeps growing, and number of nodes in the tens of thousands means there is global support. If this metric was dying, it would be a problem.

    The real price could also be much higher. Imagine if everyone wanted to move their coins off the exchanges. From what I read, there isn't enough. At the rate they are moving, I think there is less than a year supply. So maybe the price is distorted, but its much lower than the true real value.

    I don't think the SEC is out to protect the common man. I'm sure their number one priority is to protect the USD. You can't very well do that if the general population realizes its losing 10% per year and moving into hard money like BTC would be the answer. Tell me, which government organization is going to tell you this truth?
     
    #55     Apr 5, 2022
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  6. RedDuke

    RedDuke

    NoahA, if fake stable coins are removed the 70%of daily volume will be gone. If you think this is bullish, you are of course entitled to your opinion.

    I am never bullish or bearish, I trade based on statistical evidence where I see positive expectancy. Sometimes I make small investments for just in case, just like I did with Ether.

    I am fascinated with crypto fraud ( not block chain or BTC of course) and in ave of the word largest bubble being inflated in front of us with very few caring/understanding what is happening. When it pops it will resonate across generations. We still talk about tulip bubble.
     
    #56     Apr 5, 2022
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  7. NoahA

    NoahA

    I think in life its always important to look at the other side. It might seem like the world's largest bubble being inflated, but what if what we are seeing is continued growth in a sector that will come to dominate finance and currency? I don't doubt that Tether helped bitcoin rise, but we have no idea what the price could have been without it.

    I consider stocks and real estate to be in a huge bubble, and this is orders of magnitude bigger than the entire crypto space. The tulip bubble isn't really comparable. For one, it didn't come back multiple times like bitcoin did, and I think we can agree that the utility of bitcoin is orders of magnitude bigger than tulip bulbs. I've seen lots of videos about the properties of sound money, that bitcoin has, and tulips didn't have any of those.

    Many now can see that fiat is the problem, but unless we have a solution we can point to, its a problem that would just keep getting worse. If you're on a sinking ship, your only choice is to hang on to whatever part is still above water. But if you see a life raft floating on the water, you have more incentive to let go of the sinking ship and get into the raft. Bitcoin is clearly the solution.

     
    #57     Apr 6, 2022
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  8. RedDuke

    RedDuke

    this is where we disagree. Yes Fed inflated stock and RE ( definitely another bubble) ironically this is exactly what USDT and alike did to crypto space. That is why when all hell breaks loose there will no safe heaven. I do not see BTC being the raft. My current solution is trading. We run fully automated algos that trade all week long. We are completely flat at week’s end not to have weekend exposure. I am planning to increase my crypto holding at certain price levels for just in case scenario using small portion of my cash.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
    #58     Apr 6, 2022
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  9. Ed48

    Ed48

    That's my thinking too. Some assets will do worse than others but I'm not sure anything will be immune. I certainly wouldn't sleep at night with my life savings in BTC if the SHTF.
     
    #59     Apr 6, 2022
  10. Here is my question... Let's say Tether goes away ... sure X% of the current volume is via tether (though I haven't fact-checked this stat, let's assume it's true).

    If it goes away, why cant that BTC trading just be facilitated by more reputable, audited stablecoins? Id think that could be a negative short term for BTC, but very positive long-term (we wouldn't have to hear about tether anymore).

    Why does this mean BTC will go down 90%???
     
    #60     Apr 6, 2022
    johnarb likes this.