uptik, thanks for posting that link ! tudor jones is a true inspiration and role model for what can be accomplished. best, surfer
Perhaps this will put your mind at ease. While initially you may not feel that you are contributing to society in the same way as a policeman or fireman, but if you're successful and making money, as you all know Uncle Sam is standing there with his hands out. Whether you realize it or not, by trading profitably, and paying your taxes, you are contributing to society by paying your taxes which allows the government to pay policemen and firemen, perform improvements in the community that DO make it a better place to live.......just cuz you're not doing the physical labor of improving your community, that doesn't mean you're not helping it. Here's a quick example, and I admit in advance my numbers will be off. Let's say a day-trader has a killer year, and makes a million bucks (I know, there's probably dozens of ET traders making at least that, but humor me). Of that million, he probably keeps about $600,000, with the other $400,000 going to the government. Now, the question is, who provides a greater service to society, the social worker making $20,000 and year helping families, or the trader who pays $400,000 in taxes, which allows the government to hire 5 social workers, improve the roads (helping construction workers find work), maintain an orderly society, and hire a new teacher at the local school. Now granted, my numbers are off, but you get the picture. Everyone who works contributes to society in one way or another, some directly as an employee of the government, others indirectly, and while it's debatable who helps more, the fact remains that if you pay your taxes, you are a VALUABLE member of society. Vega
If profitable: 1.) He pays taxes to Uncle Sam. 2.) Spends money in the Economy, thus creating demand for goods and services, and jobs. If you somehow feel guilty about your "worth" to society, I would suggest that you find yourself a Regional Park to go for a walk in and ask one of the Park Rangers what kind of "volunteer" work is needed. State budget cutbacks here in California have really hit our State and Regional Parks System pretty hard. They love people coming up to them to volunteer! Besides, it feels awesome to be in the Great Outdoors and away from the computer screen! I spent 11 hours last Fall "watersealing" some picnic tables and a brand new railing on a sundeck up on a 3900 foot mountain here in the San Francisco Bay Area before the winter season hit. The view was simply magnificent! I got to do some good volunteer work for the State Park in total peace and quiet, amongst the incredible natural beauty of nature. It is a great way to feed the soul. I strongly recommend it!
I'm very happy to see that some traders at least ask themselves questions. It is not a question to feel guilty or not guilty just to save one's conciousness : this is useless. It's a question of acting. I had created a group dedicated to Ethic where I ask: Title : HarryTrader's Ethical Trading Group Description : HarryTrader's Ethical Project "Do you think that this Financial System creates the mess and poverty all around the World ? This system has been here for a long time and it's too big to fight. But we can do our best to profit from it by taking the money back to real economy. " There are only 15 people at the moment (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/harrytrader2000Ethical/settings?mode=1 ). It's a long term project and I haven't began anything yet because it needs reflexion. But my first idea is to create an ethical journal around economy and finance because people must understand before why ethic is important: it is not important only for moral but for day to day life of the whole planet including the riches who for most ignore the long term consequence of this situation.
Well... I started from the top and down to the bottom of the thread, again. So to get the whole thing into perspective for myself. There's 2 major points... 1. Social standard issues. Based on social standards, we seem to have to give back to the society and hold meaning to the profession that we have. As for a trader, we create liquidity to the market which helps hedgers and other traders(speculators and investors). This gives an equal opportunity for everyone to participate in the market considering everyone is following rules and being fair. 2. Moral issues. Since the dawn of Catholic Church, Western Civilization that we live in put money as source of evil (Well, not quite... there were times when business was considered a good deed... also not judging that the Church is good or bad... just history ) Also, there's media propaganda that rich people are bad... Whatever it is, there are somewhat of a resentment towards making money. They're pretty much the same but the difference is that there has to be meaning to what we do and for some reason what we do seems to be a bad thing. Naturally, we want to offset the resentment to do the opposite like help people or seek for inner peace. =================================== So let's say we help people like becoming a nurse. Are nurses happy? No... not really... they get stressed out with sick people demanding and relying on them. You see "grotesque" injuries or see people going crazy due to the fear of death. I'm sure they would envy our jobs... staying at the office, alone, not dealing with people directly and so forth. How about social workers... like cleaning the park or picking up garbage on the side of the freeway... I'm sure they don't like their job. They don't get paid well, tired all the time and hey try working during the summer... that thing kills! Anyways... they have their downtimes... I'm sure they're giving back to society. They help people and keep the city clean and safe for kids or for us to have a pleasant time. So are they happy? What makes everyone happy in life anyways... My belief is that we all sacrifice a lot of ourselves for others to provide service in some sort of kind. Nurses hate what they sacrifice to make others live. Social workers hate what they sacrifice to make others feel comfortable living. Traders hate what they sacrifice to keep the economy going for a stable macro-economy, eventually there are traders from other countries and we try to take their money and give some share to the US via taxes. Anyways, all this is BS. Money is Evil? Then let all the foreigners take the American money and let them prosper... give them all the money they want and turn this country into a 3rd world country... Inner Peace? Rather than that... thank the guy next you for the service they provide. Don't put it to waste. Giving it back? Sure... if it makes you happy. It doesn't make me or some other guy like me happy... It's your preference, though I respect it. Keep it to yourself. You're donate to make yourself happy not to make others happy. Get it??? you're seeking something in return from the donation, which is to fulfill your ego. If someone says they do it without ego... why mention it... just send a nameless check or cash to some donation... That's more cool! Anyways, these are my 2 cents.
Trading is not a useless business. I used to do electrolysis, picking hair off vain women is useless. Being a psychologist is useless, talking about nothing to neurotics. Seinfeld was useless, a show about nothing. Writing rap songs and getting a million bucks is useless. I could go on and on about professions that are useless. It all depends on your point of view. I always think I fulfill a useful function as a trader. Love, support and fertilizer.
No... nothing is useless... as long as there is demand. ======================================== Added: I used my brain cells too much today in ET... I'm gonna call it quits for the night... I hope... time to go grab some Popeye's Chicken and a 12 pack of beer and relax...
Money is like blood. I am a capitalist myself. I don't consider that Money is evil. I don't consider that being rich is evil if you deserve it or even if you get rich by chance - because chance is part of life, without chance life would be boring. So it is not a question of being jealous of the success of others or being guilty of being successfull (by talent or by chance), once again it is a question of being able to do something that you consider that it is worth. Now not everybody has to do something worth it's personal choice in a free society. But society reflects the people and I don't think that today's society is really at the best.
Take a look at scavengers in animal kingdom. Crows for example. Most of the people despise them. I saw one yesterday while having lunch at outdoor cafe. It was just sitting there fearlessly looking at me. I really wanted to shoot it.... Yet, nature needs them as much as other more appealing creatures. I am _not_ equating traders to scavengers, although some parallels could be drawn sometimes. Funny, but that is what majority of layman think of us. Every individual owes to himself to be what he is/destined for. There is a place and purpose for everyone. Putting doctors and firefighters above others (which is hard not to do) is just pure occupational discrimination