What does Karen the Supertrader and her results say about volatility? Oversold?

Discussion in 'Options' started by shooter, Feb 16, 2014.

  1. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    1. not true. Playing both sides is hedging.
    2. not true. That's why they watch the market 24/7
    3. true
    4. not true They keep closing them all the time.
    5. true

    Hey, you got 2 out of 5 right, that ain't bad!!!

    Now we already established the fact earlier (you know your misread 56% return) that you don't always understand correctly what she said, so next time you think she said something, ask me about it beforehand. :)

    Also, just because she said something 2 years ago (earliest interview) that doesn't mean that they are still doing it the same way. Anyway, her credibility comes down to Sosnoff's credibility, he is the one who backed her claims and is in a position to stand up for her or refute her....
     
    #151     Mar 17, 2014
  2. jamesbp

    jamesbp

    You nailed it ...
    Sosnoff has repeatedly stated that;

    - he is a pretty aggressive risk taker
    - her approach to trading is way too risky for his liking
    - that she has not really been tested in a real market crash ... say market down +50%
    - that he has not and would not invest in one of her funds

    Is that the kind of endorsement you were looking for!
     
    #152     Mar 17, 2014
  3. SIUYA

    SIUYA

    This comment is spot on.
    If you applaud grandma, but also think that she will one day blow up with her size then keeping your account at the same broker as her is risky business.
     
    #153     Mar 17, 2014
  4. I think most people do understand the concept. Yes it happens sometimes, so does a 3 SD move, a 4 SD move, and so on. Under the right conditions, anything is possible. But if you think like that you should just put your risk capital under a mattress.

    All I was showing was that "IF" she had sold just outside of the SPX making a 2 SD move, she would have had no losers in the last 14 years (maybe longer, that is all I verified). I don't think anyone is saying it will never happen, just that it hasn't happened.

    So knowing that, is that a good bet or not? I personally would always hedge in some manner to keep me in the game if things go horribly wrong.
     
    #154     Mar 17, 2014
  5. jamesbp

    jamesbp

    SPX fell approx 35% in Aug/Sep 2008 from ~1300 to ~840.
    Was this inside 2 SD move?
     
    #155     Mar 17, 2014
  6. It moved outside 2 SD but ended the month back inside that level. That chart is one of the five charts attached to a post I made on page 21 of this thread.

    Again, I am not endorsing her or her methods. I was just pointing out how it would have played out if those were the levels she was selling at. I have no idea if that is what she is doing.
     
    #156     Mar 17, 2014
  7. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    I would say that was probably 3 SD, but the timeframe is also important. That move took 5-6 weeks, so there was plenty of time to adjust positions. I think we have to look more at 1 day large moves, because she DOES manage the positions. (I think after a big move they might wait a few days for the market to chill, before putting on new positions, but I could be wrong)

    So in those 6-7 weeks there were days with 100 points moves, and not just down.

    I counted 5 days with 90-100 points down moves and 2 days with similar upmoves. Now if we are talking % instead of points, the 3 biggest moves were in the 2nd week of October from 1000 to 910 (9% drop) and the next day a 8% drop. The following day saw a 10% raise, so the biggest % moves in 1 day happened upward in 2008. There was an even bigger one on the 28th, from 850 to 940.

    Now the steepest 2-3 days move was also upward from 840 to 1040 in 48 trading hours (23%). Followed by a complete reversal of similar magnitude. I would love to know how she manages the positions in such occasions
     
    #157     Mar 17, 2014
  8. sle

    sle

    Really? How is selling convexity on both sides of the distribution is "hedging"?
     
    #158     Mar 17, 2014
  9. jamesbp

    jamesbp

    What are the levels and how have you calculated the 2 SD moves for Aug/Sep 2008?
     
    #159     Mar 17, 2014
  10. panzerman

    panzerman

    I thought she said she did 95% probability on puts and 90% on calls. That would make it a 1.643 SD move to the down side or a 1.282 SD move to the upside.

    In Excel try this:

    =normsdist(-1.643) = 0.05

    =normsdist(1.282) = 0.90

    The normsdist function calculates the area under the curve to the left of a given SD.
     
    #160     Mar 17, 2014