What Do We Do With Barack Obama?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by JamesL, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. Ricter

    Ricter

    If jem is proposing to lower payroll withholding, a socialist idea because it would give the masses more money to spend, an idea which worked during this crisis for the commies in Australia, then I agree. That would no doubt generate sales.

    But if it is merely business taxes, you can forget it. They're based on a rate applied to sales and revenue, so if sales are slow, so are the taxes. Furthermore, we have cash and access (though not yet "easy") to credit, so if more money in my accounts would generate more sales, trust me, I'd be spending some of it. Doesn't work that way.
     
    #41     Oct 13, 2010
  2. They would be keeping money loose regardless of who was the so called head. Its the only thing keeping the ship afloat. How many dissenters have there been to current policy over the last two years?
     
    #42     Oct 13, 2010
  3. not if obama had reappointed volker. obama has truely been a dont rock the boat type of leader. he continued many of george bush policies. he kept bush appointee bernanke and we have loose money. he kept bush appointee robert gibbs and we are still mired in a senseless war.
     
    #43     Oct 13, 2010
  4. I cannot assume what Volker would have done.
     
    #44     Oct 13, 2010
  5. jem

    jem

    Richter did you read the artilce Jame L linked to?

    Lower rates causes business investment - higher rates cause tax avoidance schemes and tax shelter investing.

    Tax shelter investing is not the most productive job creation mechanism.

    When people believe their businesses are going to more profitable in the future they focus on business expansion.

    When people are concerned about cap and tax and other taxes looming... they refuse to deploy assets.

    When people see tax cuts on the horizon they put capital work.

    As a trader or investor how can you argue with that.


    Finally, if you really want to get academic... here it is.

    Tax income vs capital deployment face what would like rainbow if you graphed it.

    at the low end some tax will make govt revenues go up and not really change people's capital deployment decisions much. Especially of some of those taxes went to infrastrucuture which supported the business.

    At the other end who would risk capital and create jobs if the government took 99 percent of your profits.

    Therefore along the curve raising taxes prevents capital from being deployed (and therefore causes a lack of job creation) and it can lower tax revenue. Vice versa for tax cuts. When you go all the way over to the no tax side you obviously do not raise revenue by lower taxes... an if you do not provide courts, law and infrastructure that would be bad for business.

    The question is where are we on the curve.....

    However, even more important to our future is where do the investors with the risk capital think we are....

    Are their investments likely to receive better or worse tax treatment by those policies being contemplated by the current crop of socialist dems?

    That is the problem with our current economy.

    Pelosi and Reid combined with Cap and Tax and Obama care have created a hostile environment for people who wish to risk their capital on future profits.


    Therefore less jobs.

    If you are correct about taxes being passed through... then lower prices frequently mean higher sales. Eventually more people are put to work.
     
    #45     Oct 13, 2010
  6. well maybe you cant but the rest of us can by looking at his history. he is a hard money guy. that is probably why he was mostly ignored by this administration. they wanted a soft money guy in there. they did not want to upset the market.
     
    #46     Oct 13, 2010
  7. nonsense. we already have one of the lowest effective coroprate tax rates in the g8. business will not expand until it sees demand that needs to be met.
    until there is demand the only investments business will make is cost cutting investments and productivity enhancements. ie fewer workers to produce the same output.
     
    #47     Oct 13, 2010
  8. jem

    jem

    1. your logic is non existent. What does comparing our rate to Europes have to do with whether lower taxes creates jobs or not.

    Besides, for decades we had the more productive economy because we had lower taxes.
    ---
    its very hard to argue with socialist apologists. They do not seem to accept even basic economic facts... even when the policies are causing our economy to be on the precipice of cratering again.
     
    #48     Oct 13, 2010
  9. Nope I cant see the possible future. Wish I could. Must be nice...

    I will stick to my way of doing things. Facts. Loose money is driving risk assets.
     
    #49     Oct 13, 2010
  10. speaking of logic. what were tax rates compared to now during the booming 90s?
    we boomed in the 90s because we had ideas. the computer and internet era buildout was an era of growth.
    we have no new ideas now. we have a fully mature economy. we dont need growth in housing or retail or anything else above the rate of population growth. how many more malls does america need?
    business senses this. that is why business refuses to hire. it has almost nothing to do with corporate taxes.
    we lived through years of the republican idea that we can allow business to send manufacturing overseas and we will just be the middle man using our educated workforce to make money off the finance industry. something happened along the way. the workforce fell behind on education and the rest of the world figured out they dont want us as middleman. now the manufacturing base is gone and our workforce has priced itself out of the world wide labor market. we are desperatly trying to destroy the dollar in a mad rush the gain competitive advantage but it isnt working because everyone wants to be an export economy so they just match our devaluations and it becomes a mad race to the bottom. we are in a pickle that has no easy solution.
     
    #50     Oct 13, 2010