I had a conversation with the reincarnated apostle Paul last night and the topic revolved around judgement...how pervasive is judgment, the effects of judgment, and how easy it is to fall into judgment. It is our weakness. Did we do what apostle James told us to do?
Pray for the Sick James 5:13-15 13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Intro. - Biblical Christianity provides something unique and special: a personal relationship with the living God. It was for this purpose that Jesus Christ was born, died on the cross and rose again. Faith in the person and work of Christ provides forgiveness of sins and makes one a child of God. One of the greatest privileges this new relationship brings is the privilege of prayer. Because of the work of Christ and our new relationship with God, through Him we are given the right to come directly into the presence of God in prayer (cf. Heb. 4:14-16. Note the contrast with Prov. 28:9). It is to this important subject of prayer that James now turns our attention. In 5:13-18 the word for prayer occurs at least once in each verse. Sometimes this emphasis on prayer is missed because of the confusion that exists in determining the significance of the sickness and healing that James talks about here. In the midst of difficult situations that demand patience (5:7-11), rather than complaining (v. 9) or resorting to oaths (v. 12), the believer should turn his attention to his God. Pressure ought to drive us to prayer. James will look at the general situation (v. 13) and then deal with a specific area relating to sickness (vv. 14,15). 5:13 - Suffering (kakopathei) refers to difficulty or hardship of any kind. Whatever trial and heartache the believer might be going through could be included here. Let him pray - Whatever type of suffering the believer is experiencing, he is commanded to turn to God in prayer. This is given as a command (present imperative). We are to turn to God our heavenly Father for strength and help in time of need. James begins his letter by exhorting believers to find wisdom for handling trials by turning to God (cf. 1:2-5). The word cheerful (euthunei) portrays the opposite of suffering. This person is "trouble-free," so to speak, one who is experiencing joy and happiness. Let him sing praises - Again, our attention should be centered on God and on praising Him for His goodness. The center of our life and attention, in good times and in bad, is to be on our God. 5:14- James proceeds to give more detailed instructions for those who are sick (astheneo). This word is often used in the New Testament of those who are spiritually weak or immature (cf, Rom. 14:1,2; 1 Cor. 8:11,12). Some feel that James is talking about those who are spiritually weak and discouraged and thus in need of spiritual strengthening. This word is also used on numerous occasions for those who are physically ill (20 of the 34 usages are in this category. Cf, John 4:46,47; 11:1,4,14; Acts 9:37). This is the more common understanding of James' use of the word and seems to fit the context better. This does not mean that the other application is not true, just that it is not the emphasis of James in this passage. Let him call for the elders of the church - Again, this is given as a command (aorist imperative). The person who is ill takes the initiative in this case. Consistent with the rest of Scripture, there is a plurality of elders in the local church (cf, Acts 14:23; Phil. 1:1). The word church is used both of the universal Church, comprising all believers everywhere (cf. Matt. 16:18; Eph, 1:22; 3:10), and also of the local church, made up of believers in a specific location meeting together (cf. Acts 5:11; 1 Cor. 4:17; Phil. 4:15). James is talking about the local church. The local church is the overwhelming emphasis of the New Testament epistles and is the focal point of God's program for His children today. The elders are commanded to pray over the sick person (aorist imperative). This is the prime ministry they perform on behalf of the one who has called them. anointing him with oil - While the basic command is to pray over him, they are also to anoint him with oil. This has occasioned much discussion as to exactly what is happening. Some make much of the distinction between the two words used for "anointing" in the Scriptures. The word chrio is used of sacred or religious anointing, while aleipho, the word used by James, is a more mundane word. This is taken to indicate that James is recommending the anointing as a medicinal practice. Thus we have a combination of medicine and prayer. It is true that anointing with oil was used medicinally in biblical times. However, we should note that it is the prayer that brings about recovery, not the anointing with oil (v. 15) There is the question of why the elders would be involved in giving the man an oil rubdown or bath if indeed this is a medicinal use of oil. Physicians were available. Some see the oil as symbolic, representing the Holy Spirit and picturing His ministry in bringing healing through the prayers of the elders. The Bible makes reference to the common practice of using oil in connection with grooming and bestowing honor. In Matthew 6:17 it is used to express good grooming and joy (cf. Ruth 3:3; 2 Chron, 28:15). In Matthew 26:7 and Luke 7:38,46 it is used as a mark of honor (cf, Ps. 23:5). (Each of these passages except Matthew 26:7 uses aleipho for "anoint.") This seems close to what James had in mind. It seems fitting that the anointing with oil in the name of the Lord pictures the joy and happiness of this occasion (cf. "oil of joy," Ps. 45:7; "oil of gladness," Isa. 61:3; Heb. 1:9). 5:15 - James has already stressed the importance of faith in our prayers (cf. 1:5-8). The prayer of the elders offered in faith is effective in restoring the health of the sick person. The word translated "will restore" is the normal word for salvation (sozo) and is translated "will save" in 5:20, It is used often in the gospels of restoration to health (cf, Matt. 9:21,22; Mark 5:23,28,34; 6:56; John 11:12; etc.) and that is the idea here. if he has committed sins (third class condition) - This is the first indication that sin may have been the cause of the illness, This does not say that sin has clearly been the cause, but raises the possibility, While these sins may have been a pattern or repeated, they have been stopped - although the consequences are now being experienced. they will be forgiven him - God stands ready to forgive, In this case the forgiveness seems related to the healing. The first part of verse 16 seems to support this. 5:16 - Therefore ties this to what has preceded and summarizes what he has just said. Two things are prerequisite for healing: confession of sins and prayer. If this sickness is the result of sin, it would explain why the elders are called to pray and anoint with oil. There is a recognition of the consequences of sin and a desire to deal with it. The anointing with oil expresses the joy and gladness that accompanies this occasion of reconciliation. The rest of the passage will support this conclusion, as we will see in future studies. James is going to deal with the two matters he mentions in verse 16a, but in reverse order: the effectiveness of prayer and the importance of confession. Note: There is nothing in this passage to support the Roman Catholic doctrine of extreme unction. The activity here is with a view to the restoration of the sick person, not his death.
Yes we have a very high view of Scripture and we believe that the text teaches us to pray for one another and to confess our sins one to another. Yes we do this weekly in our services. Prayer can Accomplish Much James 5:16-18 16 Confess your trespasses[e] to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit. Intro. - James has given specific instructions for the sick in verse 14: The one who is sick is to call for the elders. The elders are to pray for him. The elders are to anoint him with oil. The anointing with oil represents the joy and happiness of this occasion. In verse 15 we see the results of this activity: The sick person is healed by the prayer of faith. Any sins he may have committed are forgiven. In light of what follows (vv. 16a,19,20), it seems likely that the key to understanding this section is the sin of the person who is sick. The sickness in view is a result of the discipline of the Lord for sin. This is why the elders are called by the sick person. He now desires to deal with his sin. James continues this subject in the following verses, giving special attention to the importance and power of prayer in verses 16-18. 5:16 - Therefore connects this to what James has just said in verses 14,15. In effect, we have a summary of these two verses in the first part of verse 16. James deals with the two matters he just covered in verse 15, only in reverse order: sins and prayer. The word confess (exomologeisthe) is given as a command (pres. mid. imp.). This is the normal word for confess with a preposition meaning "out" (ek) on the front. Some take this to mean an open or full confession. to one another - This would seem to have its immediate reference to the elders in verses 14,15. The acknowledgement of the specific sins which have led to the illness are part of the process of dealing with the sin. This is not because the elders have any power of forgiveness, but as spiritual leaders of the local body they are responsible for dealing with sin among the members (cf. Acts 20:28). This would also allow for the confessing of the sins to anyone who had been wronged by them. The second command is to pray for one another. Again, in the context the reference is to the elders who are instructed to pray for the sick person who has called for them. so that you may be healed - This phrase expresses the purpose of the confession and prayer. This is basically the same result as was expressed in verse 15. Again the context points to physical healing. James now emphasizes the importance and effectiveness of prayer. The emphasis in this statement might be seen in the order it is given: "Much power has the prayer of a righteous man in its working." One writer translates, "The prayer of a righteous man is very powerful in its operation" (Adamson). The word effective really represents two words in the Greek text. The first word, polus, means "much". The next word, ishcuo, means "have power," "be competent," "be able." So we are talking about something with much power or very powerful. A righteous man is one who has had his sins forgiven by faith in Christ. In James it probably carries the added idea of a life lived in conformity to the character of Christ. Again, in the immediate context, it would seem that the elders are being considered. However, righteousness would not be limited to elders. can accomplish much - This translates a word which means "work," "be at work," "operate," "be effective." What James says is that prayer is very powerful in what it is able to accomplish. This prayer must be offered by a righteous man - one who has been redeemed in Christ and is living his life in obedience to the Word of God. To demonstrate the powerful working of prayer, James gives an example from the Old Testament. 5:17 - Elijah was held in highest esteem by the Jews. He certainly is an example of a righteous man. However, he also is an illustration of a man who is just like us. with a nature like ours (homoiopathees)-This stresses the humanity of the great prophet (cf. Acts 14:15). He was a human being just like we are. The reference is probably to the discouragement and fear that Elijah experienced in his conflict with Jezebel (cf. 1 Kings 19:1-4). It is important to understand this, for we often dismiss Elijah's unusual power in prayer by thinking of him as somewhat more than a mere man. That is not the case. As a result of the prayer of Elijah, it did not rain on the earth (probably referring to the land of Palestine) for three years and six months. The Old Testament does not record the prayer of Elijah on this occasion, just his announcement of the drought (cf. 1 Kings 17:1). The Old Testament does not record the exact length of the drought (cf. 1 Kings 18:1), but it is mentioned twice in the New Testament (cf. Luke 4:25). 5:18 - Again, as a result of Elijah's prayer, the drought came to an end (cf. 1 Kings 18:41-45). It was immediately following this great demonstration of the power of prayer that Elijah was faced with overwhelming fear and depression in the face of the threats of Jezebel (1 Kings 19:1-4). Often after the greatest victories in our service for God we are most vulnerable to the attacks of Satan. Elijah is an illustration of the fact that the prayer of a righteous man is very powerful in the accomplishing of God's purposes. The first question is, "Do we qualify as righteous?" We are declared righteous by God through faith in His Son, Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:28; 4:5; 5:1). For effectiveness in prayer, the righteousness we have in Christ must be demonstrated in the way we live. Only as we live in submission to His will can we pray according to that will (cf. James 4:3). The second question is, "Are we a praying people?" The great power of prayer for accomplishing the purposes of God is operative only when we pray. We can expect Satan to work in devious and deceitful ways to keep God's people from serious prayer. We must be diligent in prayer. "Now He was telling them a parable to show that at all times they ought to pray and not to lose heart" (Luke 18:1). "Pray that you may not enter into temptation" (Luke 22:40,46). "Devote yourselves to prayer" (Col. 4:2; cf. Rom. 12:12; Acts 1:14).
Please go back and read this thread from the begining. It will all make sense. It is NOT rocket science. My intention was to post what Reform Christians believe so that those interested could read up on the issue and post any revelent questions regarding our statement of faith as mentioned in the 1689 London Baptist Confession. That's it. This was never meant to be a flame board. Those who have a geniune interest are invited to read. Those that don't , DON'T. That is why I posted it in Chit Chat. So that we could have a peacefull dialogue. Respecting each persons beliefs and so that those seeking a greater understanding of Scripture might be able to do so without being insulted or the targets of hate by others.
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY INTRODUCTION CHAPTER II. Theology 1. Its Nature. IF the views presented in the preceding chapter be correct, the question, What is Theology? is already answered. If natural science be concerned with the facts and laws of nature, theology is concerned with the facts and the principles of the Bible. If the object of the one be to arrange and systematize the facts of the external world, and to ascertain the laws by which they are determined; the object of the other is to systematize the facts of the Bible, and ascertain the principles or general truths which those facts involve. And as the order in which the facts of nature are arranged cannot be determined arbitrarily, but by the nature of the facts themselves, so it is with the facts of the Bible. The parts of any organic whole have a natural relation which cannot with impunity be ignored or changed. The parts of a watch, or of any other piece of mechanism, must be normally arranged, or it will be in confusion and worthless. All the parts of a plant or animal are disposed to answer a given end, and are mutually dependent. We cannot put the roots of a tree in the place of the branches, or the teeth of an animal in the place of its feet. So the facts of science arrange themselves. They are not arranged by the naturalist. His business is simply to ascertain what the arrangement given in the nature of the facts is. If he mistake, his system is false, and to a greater or less degree valueless. The same is obviously true with regard to the facts or truths of the Bible. They cannot be held in isolation, nor will they admit of any and every arrangement the theologian may choose to assign them. They bear a natural relation to each other, which cannot be overlooked or perverted wthout the facts themselves being perverted. If the facts of Scripture are what Augustinians believe them to be, then the Augustinian system is the only possible system of theology. If those facts be what Romanists or Remonstrants take them to be, then their system is the only true one. It is important that the theologian should know his place. He is not master of the situation. He can no more construct a system of theology to suit his fancy than the astronomer can adjust the mechanism of the heavens according to his own good pleasure. As the facts of astronomy arrange themselves in a certain order, and will admit of no other, so it is with the facts of theology. Theology, therefore, is the exhibition of the facts of Scripture in their proper order and relation, with the principles or general truths involved in the facts themselves, and which pervade and harmonize the whole. It follows, also, from this view of the subject, that as the Bible contains one class of facts or truths which are not elsewhere revealed, and another class which, although more clearly made known in the Scriptures than anywhere else, are, nevertheless, so far revealed in nature as to be deducible therefrom, theology is properly distinguished as natural and revealed. The former is concerned with the facts of nature so far as they reveal God and our relation to him, and the latter with the facts of Scripture. This distinction, which, in one view is important, in another, is of little consequence, inasmuch as all that nature teaches concerning God and our duties, is more fully and more authoritatively revealed in his Word.
Definitions of Theology. Other definitions of Theology are often given 1. Sometimes the word is restricted to its etymological meaning, "a discourse concerning God." Orpheus and Homer were called theologians among the Greeks, because their poems treated of the nature of the gods. Aristotle classed the sciences under the heads of physics, mathematics, and theology, i. e., those which concern nature, number and quantity, and that which concerns God. The Fathers spoke of the Apostle John as the theologian, because in his gospel and epistles the divinity of Christ is rendered so prominent. The word is still used in this restricted sense when opposed to anthropology, soteriology, ecclesiology, as departments of theology in its wider sense. 2. Theology is sometimes said to be the science of the supernatural. But what is the supernatural? The answer to that question depends on the meaning assigned to the word nature. If by nature is meant the external world as governed by fixed laws, then the souls of men and other spiritual beings are not included under the term. In this use of the word nature, the supernatural is synonymous with the spiritual, and theology, as the science of the supernatural, is synonymous with pneumatology. If this view be adopted, psychology becomes a branch of theology, and the theologian must, as such, teach mental philosophy. The word nature is, however, often taken in a wider sense, so as to include man. Then we have a natural and a spiritual world. And the supernatural is that which transcends nature in this sense, so that what is supernatural is of necessity also superhuman. But it is not necessarily super-angelic. Again, nature may mean everything out of God; then the supernatural is the divine, and God is the only legitimate subject of theology. In no sense of the word, therefore, is theology the science of the supernatural. Hooker1 says, "Theology is the science of divine things." If by divine things, or "the things of God," he meant the things which concern God, then theology is restricted to a "discourse concerning God;" if he meant the things revealed by God, according to the analogy of the expression "things of the Spirit," as used by the Apostle in I Cor. ii. 14, then the definition amounts to the more definite one given above. 3. A much more common definition of Theology, especially in our day, is that it is the science of religion. The word religion, however, is ambiguous. Its etymology is doubtful. Cicero2refers it to relegere, to go over again, to consider. "Religio" is then consideration, devout observance, especially of what pertains to the worship and service of God. "Religens" is devout, conscientious. "Religiosus," in a good sense, is the same as our word religious; in a bad sense, it means scrupulous, superstitious. "Religentem esse oportet, religiosum nefas."3 Augustin and Lactantius derive the word from religare, to bind back. Augustin4 says: "Ipse Deus enim fons nostrae beatudinis, ipse omnis appetitionis est finis. Hunc eligentes vel potius religentes amiseramus enim negligentes: hunc ergo religentes, unde et religio dicta perhibetur, ad eum dilectione tendimus ut perveniendo quiescamus." And Lactantius, "Vinculo pietatis obstricti, Deo religati sumus, unde ipsa religio nomen accepit, non, ut Cicero interpretatus est, a religendo."5 According to this religlo is the ground of obligation. It is that which binds us to God. Subjectively, it is the inward necessity of union with God. Commonly the word religion, in its objective sense, means "Modus Deum colendi," as when we speak of the Pagan, the Mohammedan, or the Christian religion. Subjectively, it expresses a state of mind. What that state characteristically is, is very variously stated. Most simply it is said to be the state of mind induced by faith in God, and a due sense of our relation to him. Or as Wegscheider expresses it, " AEqualis et cow stans animi affectio, qua homo, necessitudinem suam eandemque aeternam, quae ei cum summo omnium rerum auctore ac moderatore sanctissimo intercedit, intimo sensu complexus, cogitationes, voluntates et actiones suas ad eum referre studet." Or, as more concisely expressed by Bretschneider, "Faith in the reality of God, with a state of mind and mode of life in accordance with that faith." Or, more vaguely, "Recognition of the mutual relation between God and the world" (Fischer), or, "The recognition of a superhuman causality in the human soul and life" (Theile). "Faith founded on feeling in the reality of the ideal" (Jacobi). "The feeling of absolute dependence" (Schleiermacher). " The observance of the moral law as a divine institution" (Kant). "Faith in the moral order of the universe" (Fichte). "The union of the finite with the infinite or God's coming to self-consciousness in the world" (Schelling).6 This diversity of views as to what religion is, is enough to prove how utterly vague and unsatisfactory must be the definition of theology as "the science of religion." Besides, this definition makes theology entirely independent of the Bible. For, as moral philosophy is the analysis of our moral nature, and the conclusions to which that analysis leads, so theology becomes the analysis of our religious consciousness, together with the truths which that analysis evolves. And even Christian theology is only the analysis of the religious consciousness of the Christian; and the Christian consciousness is not the natural religious consciousness of men as modified and determined by the truths of the Christian Scriptures, but it is something different. Some say it is to be referred to a new life transmitted from Christ. Others refer everything distinctive in the religious state of Christians to the Church, and really merge theology into ecclesiology. We have, therefore, to restrict theology to its true sphere, as the science of the facts of divine revelation so far as those facts concern the nature of God and our relation to him, as his creatures, as sinners, and as the subjects of redemption. All these facts, as just remarked, are in the Bible. But as some of them are revealed by the works of God, and by the nature of man, there is so far a distinction between natural theology, and theology considered distinctively as a Christian science. With regard to natural theology, there are two extreme opinions. The one is that the works of nature make no trustworthy revelation of the being and perfections of God; the other, that much revelation is so clear and comprehensive as to preclude the necessity of any supernatural revelation. This is all that I have time for today. Lord willing we will continue tomorrow
Uhhh..ok never mind, I am not a Christian obviously, and I am in a cult. I'm just still looking for the one denomination that does what James tells them to do. I bet you are going to get all kinds of intelligent discussion of your statements of points of your faith here in Chit Chat,,,, on ET..
Ok, I am back on topic now. I have experience with one Reformed Christian so far. I would say they believe that anybody that does not play the game exactly the way they want is a cult member and not born again. I guess I stand accused of nonconforming, like the people mentioned in the opening paragraphs of this boring cut/paste job. I really am still looking for that one church, it doesn't have to be a big denomination even, with lots of money and property all over the place and billions in the bank because so many people died and left property to them so many centuries ago. Just a little odd denomination would do it for me..... that one church that is capable of getting a pencil out and going through the bible and writing down what Christians are supposed to do and when they get to James... it can't be a church that says "oh shit, that can't be what it says" and just goes on with life like it never happened. And no accusers, that is one of the devil's nicknames, no accusers please, like the one Reformed Christian memeber I have history with, accused me of being not born again and a cult guy. NO CULTS of course, I don't want to be in a cult, the leaders always want all your money then your women, usually in that order too because cult leaders are flakes that could not find a job or their sad ass with both hands. Somebody tries to take my woman and I will show them what circumcision is about for sure and the wallet is off limits until I say so and you better ask nicely. Yessir, no cults for me, ever. Cults really suck. I read up on them, they all have a problem with the trinity. It's never "Jesus was God incarnate and he died for my sins and also he now reigns in heaven", too simple for them, they need to complicate it. Did I stay on topic?? Jeez, with the mass cut/paste job how could I be off topic, I am sure that what I am saying is in there somewhere.