So you beleive in some particular scriptures. I have no problem with that at all, however your endless posting of those scriptures is a proselytizing process..... When you can't answer anything, but rather post some scriptures in response, that is in fact your answer, and it is a form of proselytizing.
First, not all the sentences above are scripture! Ha ha. We have scripture interspersed with what someone says the scripture means. The question is: is it possible to interpret scripture while in a state of denial...while in that state which, according to scripture, makes one hostile? You identify us as, by nature, dead through trespasses and sin. That is your id, not the scripture. Hence, how will you be able to interpret the scripture? By nature, we are immortal. Our most real identity is love, and we are totally innocent. The only sin you are capable of is to deny this. Multiple denials = multiple sins, but it's the same sin. And it's what kills you by trapping you in the structure of the flesh. In such a state of denial, you will be hostile, not only to God, but everyone around, including, and especially, yourself. The 'natural' state is not our original state. There is a difference. JohnnyK
You have not answered my question nor have you dealt directly with the TEXT Why do you avoid dealing with the TEXT Total Depravity The Bible teaches that, since the original sin of Adam, all humans are spiritually dead and morally incapable of submitting to God in faith and obedience. We have a mindset that "cannot submit to God." Romans 8:7-8, "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God." The reason for this moral inability is given in Ephesians 2:1, "You were dead through your trespasses and sins." The natural person â the way we are by nature â apart from the work of the Holy Spirit, does not see the truth as true and desirable, but considers it foolishness. So he cannot embrace it as true and precious. 1 Corinthians 2:14 says, "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." How do you deal with the above mentioned Scriptures that are opposed to your point of view? What Scriptures do you believe support your point of view?
Sooo... anyhow, I find that Scripture says it is to be interpreted spiritually, and that people overcome the will of the flesh by the Blood of the Lamb. How do you intellectual guys deal with Scripture and overcoming the flesh? Is it a strain for your brain, do you white knuckle it out or what? Just curious.
Thank you for your question. It is true that the Scripture is spritually discerned in that God through the working of the Holy Sprit illuminates the mind to comprehend and leads the believer to all righteousness. Paragraph 4. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, He frees him from his natural bondage under sin,7 and by His grace alone enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good;8 yet so as that by reason of his remaining corruptions, he does not perfectly, nor only will, that which is good, but does also will that which is evil.9 7 Col. 1:13; John 8:36 8 Phil. 2:13 9 Rom. 7:15,18,19,21,23 Paragraph 5. This will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone in the state of glory only.10 10 Eph. 4:13 By Grace Through Faith Eph 1:1-10 1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. The Whole Armor of God Eph 6:10:20 10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[c] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saintsâ 19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. The only way to war against the flesh and the spirit of darkness is to put on the whole armour of God.
much of the calvinists self loathing and ideas that all men are worthless and depraved like dirty rags in gods eyes comes from the writings of paul. paul was a mentally unstable person who hijacked jesus message and changed it to his own message. this article explains why paul was such a self loathing person. it is unfortunate that the men who made up and voted on the bible based so much of it on pauls writings. http://www.beliefnet.com/story/142/story_14299_1.html Was the Apostle Paul Gay? What accounts for Paul's self-judging rhetoric, his negative feeling toward his own body? An Episcopal bishop mulls the issues. Excerpted from "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism" with permission of HarperSanFrancisco. Nothing about Paul was moderate. He was tightly drawn, passionately emotional, filled with enormous feelings of self-negativity, seeking to deal with those feelings in the timehonored way of external controls, unflagging religious zeal, and rigid discipline. He could not, however, master the passions that consumed him What were these passions? There is no doubt in my mind that they were sexual in nature, but what kind of sexual passions were they? Searching once again through the writings of Paul, some conclusions begin to emerge that startle and surprise the reader. Paul's passions seemed to be incapable of being relieved. Why was that? Paul himself had written that if one "could not exercise self-control" that person should marry. "For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion" (1 Cor. 7:9). But we have no evidence from any source that Paul ever married. Indeed, he exhorts widows and the unmarried to "remain single as I do" (1 Cor. 7:8). A primary purpose of sexual activity in marriage, according to Paul, was to keep Satan from tempting people "through lack of self-control" (1 Cor. 7:5). Why, when Paul seemed to be so consumed with a passion he could not control, would he not take his own advice and alleviate that passion in marriage? He did write that marriage was an acceptable, if not ideal, way of life. Still, however, marriage never seemed to loom for him as a possibility. Paul has been perceived as basically negative toward women. He did write that "it is well for a man not to touch a woman" (1 Cor. 7:1). The passion that burned so deeply in Paul did not seem to be related to the desire for union with a woman. Why would that desire create such negativity in Paul, anyway? Marriage, married love, and married sexual desire were not thought to be evil or loathsome. Paul's sexual passions do not fit comfortably into this explanatory pattern. But what does? Obviously there is no way to know for certain the cause of Paul's anxiety prior to that moment of final revelation in the Kingdom of Heaven. But that does not stop speculation. The value of speculation in this case comes when a theory is tested by assuming for a moment that it is correct and then reading Paul in the light of that theory. Sometimes one finds in this way the key that unlocks the hidden messages that are present in the text. Once unlocked, these messages not only cease to be hidden but they become obvious, glaring at the reader, who wonders why such obvious meanings had not been seen beforeSome have suggested that that Paul was plagued by homosexual fears. This is not a new idea, and yet until recent years, when homosexuality began to shed some of its negative connotations, it was an idea so repulsive to Christian people that it could not be breathed in official circles. This is not to say that our cultural homophobia has disappeared. It is still lethal and dwells in high places in the life of the Christian church, and it is a subject about which ecclesiastical figures are deeply dishonest, saying one thing publicly and acting another way privately. The prejudice, however, is fading slowly but surely. With the softening of that homophobic stance we might consider the hypothesis that Paul may have been a gay male.(more)
Wow! Holy Sh!t man. ( no pun intended) From 04-09-06 11:00 AM to 04-10-06 04:15 PM you have created more discussion than anyone would ever want to read. 20 pages of 97% Aapex postings. It took me 10 minutes just to scroll through all 20 pages of your stuff- stopping now and then just to get a feel for what the few other posters were saying. Why do you feel the need to "share" soooo aggressively if not to help win a few souls or confirm your own belief by regurgitating all this supporting scripture and posturing of your positions? Do you believe you will add jewels to your crown by performing certain things during your life? Do you think a bunch of prayer from a whole church of righteous folks can sway God's decision priorities? (no scripture on this answer please. - be human - not spiritual- in relating your reply.)
Ok. What we have found in our prayer meetings is that people have on false armor, the breasplate of self righteousness etc. How would you get that stuff off before putting on the armor?
Good point. And interesting free-thinking from the Episcopal bishop. It does indeed appear that Paul was unusual. I mean, one day he is chasing down christians to have them stoned, the next day he's crashing the apostles party (actually about two years passed from the time he was knocked blind off his high horse by Jesus). And if the authorities in charge when the new testament was being canonized wanted to create an imbalance in favor amassing power for themselves, certainly they would lean heavily on Paul. There is a noticeable absence of writings from the other major players of the day. It should also be noted that Paul was traveling and preaching with Barnabas as some kind of duo...until some kind of disagreement compelled them to part ways, not very amicably. This is extremely significant, imo. You would think there would be complete unity in message so early in the game...but NO. I wouldn't doubt that Barnabas thought Paul to be a bit extreme, and compromising the message due to his passion. In the Seth library as channeled by Jane Roberts in the 70s, Seth mentions that apostle Paul was not satisfied with his performance, and would reincarnate. He mentioned that Paul regretted embellishing the message in such a way that it would survive in the current political environment...only to compromise it in hindsight. Hindsight tells us he was very successful with that endeavor...his writings being first choice among the ABOVE GROUND church, vs the UNDERGROUND church (literally assembling in the catacombs under Rome to avoid persecution). It seems to me that it will be impossible for anyone to understand Paul, until they have the entire message in it's purest form...coming from the major players. I hang with an interesting crowd, and it came to my attention over the weekend that one of the players in the group is the reincarnated Paul. Considering the source of this info (not him)...and having had a spirited conversation with him about some deep issues, I tend to agree it is a distinct possibility...including also the signs of the times. Perhaps I could get him to join this debate. Would you like the apostle Paul to join this thread? However, he, like other reincarnated major players, do not introduce themselves as, or advertise their past lives. In fact it is somewhat avoided and for good reason. Humility prevents this, memory prevents this, and for other reasons, it's not necessarily a productive issue regarding what is important NOW. They, as all of us who are consciously attempting to master the Master's message, consider NOW to be the moment of power, putting the past into it's proper perspective. I want to respect his privacy, so I won't disclose everything discussed. But I will reveal that he is a major player, literally, a master of the keyboards, unlike you have ever heard before. He can spontaneously compose masterpieces that imo, exceed the contributions of Bach and Beethoven. He has a sharp, quick mind. He is able to extract the archetypal messages of truth from science fiction books and movies, and expound on how they relate to universal truths. I can also say that he is deeply passionate about understanding the causative factors leading to mankinds predicaments. Just like in the book of Acts, when he gets talking, the hours can fly by, and pretty soon it's midnight and he's still on fire. But in a crowd, he has chosen not to speak or teach, except through his fingers. He is mastering the tongue and humility. True enough, our words mirror what's going on inside of us, and apostle Pauls words probably tell us more about Paul than Paul tells us about the gospel. Those areas that have not been mastered will be revealed as much as those that have been mastered. I would suggest that the issue is/was not about gay. The issue goes back to the one afflicting mankind as a primal cause: the fragmentation of consciousness due to a "denial of will". By that I mean that mankind has set his mind as master over his heart...which is the feminine. Jesus' mission was about reestablishing the proper order between mind as servant, and the heart as master. On another level, this is about a more perfect integration of the divine feminine with the divine masculine within our being. To the degree that the 'goddess' has been denied, and mankind has denied his Heart in favor of his Mind....mankind suffers untold pain and suffering. Actually, it IS TOLD everyday in newspaper headlines. I believe apostle Paul's issues were about not having yet mastered re-integration of the male/female union of our being...as it is perfected in well, the Master! The apostle Paul, imo, was still struggling to regain the proper balance, having previously so deeply denied the Heart, and all of it's magic, in favor of the mind. The result was a church that also struggles with the same issue, mostly denying the goddess, the heart, and the feminine, in favor of masculine minds... and the minds tendency to snatch control over understanding. You will also find a mind-centric church to be highly polarized...most obviously displayed with an obsessive preoccupation with who is included, and who is excluded from the church! This goes back to the original sin: denial of love...that we ARE love. As our love is contained in our heart, you can see the impending doom overshadowing male/female relationships...not to mention all other relationships. But at certain extremes, a man will find himself single until he has come to terms with his own being as both male and female, with the heart in command. I might suggest, that the reincarnated Paul is mastering this issue first of all by creating music with his heart in command, and his mind perfectly assisting. In this order, he creates music that is exquisitely beautiful. I can say that he is able to evoke tears in just a few measures...at least for me! He is able to create a musical portrait of the soul...of an individual or of a group. When he hits certain chords...oh my God! JohnnyK
Fair enough. I just want you to be aware of how you are closely associating opinion with what is called scripture. If it were not for the fact that I recognize such scriptural passages vs. added commentary, I could easily be confused and mixed up. Since most people are not as keen on what is called scripture as I am, it could be misconstrued that you are attempting some kind of misrepresentation...or as ZZzz might put it...proselyting. My experience with proselytation is that it invariably involves passion that is willing to exchange truth in favor of numbers. But I know you have more integrity than that, so we can move on. But just for the record, your format = ie: Commentary James 5:7 "Original Text". Unless you embolden the text vs the commentary, how would the average reader tell the difference? But now that I know your format, I'll now address the text and the question.