Thank you for writing. Regarding what type of programming I want to do, that was the purpose behind this thread; to learn what's possible and how programming can benefit me as an independent trader. I suppose automated short-term trading is one of the things I would have an interest in learning about and see if I could develop. Modeling and testing strategies as well. I'm not interested in 'breaking into trading' and never actually wrote that. I want to trade my own account and have no interest in working for a firm. Thanks.
I think it'll depend on what you're naturally good at. Designing an automated trading system is going to be an entirely different skillset than backtesting or modeling with little overlap. Data acquisition/processing: -Scripting languages (e.g. python, perl, shell scripting) -Database software (e.g. sql, q/kdb, hdf5) Backtesting/Modeling: -Statistical Software/Packages (e.g. R, Python/Pandas/Numpy, Matlab) -Numerical Methods -Statistical Methods Automated Trading: -Object Oriented languages (e.g. C++) -Socket Programming -Multithreading -Database software Not to discourage you, but if you're planning on doing this on your own; you have an extremely long road ahead of you. Deploying strategies is one thing, but putting together the trading infrastructure won't be trivial at all. Another hurdle to get over as well, is figuring out all of the nuances of actual backtesting that you'll rarely hear about online. Here's one example: You might be able to come up with some nice equity curve using daily close data, but actual trading results differ. Why? Well for one, you can't compute a signal and instantaneously execute on a closing price. The closing price that's reported to you, is it last tick? or is it the closing auction price? Typically the latter. That's not a price you can actually transact at unless you commit 15 min prior to the close, or around 15 seconds before the close if you route to the floor. None of that stuff will be taught in school, nor will it be discussed in most online forums. I think if you're serious about trading on your own, it might make sense to take your skills to a firm for a few years then go out work for yourself.
Thank you for the wake-up call. I never imagined learning programming would be a weekend course, but I may have underestimated it. I suppose I can reassess when done with the introductory courses in school. Should I discover that I really have an interest in programming and have a talent for it, moving forward should be easy and natural. I do however suspect that my interest is not strong enough that I will want to put in the effort needed to become a 'proficient' programmer. Best regards.
Programming can be added to the list of items that falls under the 10,000 hours rule... Unless you're an INTP/INTJ, then it'll drop to under 5,000 hours, possibly under 2,000... For those that do not know, the 10,000 hour rule is a guideline that suggests it takes 10K hours of purposeful practice to become extremely proficient at something. Typically, the guideline applies to ... Athletes Musicians Artists Writers Programmers The best of the best of the first three - athletes, musicians, artists - typically begin their journeys between ages 5 and 10, and hit their peaks in their early-mid 20s. Programmers and writers usually start in their 20s and 30s, and can achieve high proficiency due to it being related to their professions. Anybody trying to become a top athlete/musician/artist beginning in their 20s is doomed due to the responsibilities of adulthood - earning an income, providing for family, social obligations, etc... Basically changed priorities... Life gets in the way..... You'd pretty much have to become a hermit unless the activity is related to your profession.
I agree with this post....the only thing I would add is that the really good programmers that I've met usually started in their teens and were drawn to it...it's a calling They didn't wait for a school to teach them....they "just did it".....as with everything in life if you do not have this level of desire then you will be limited to only being a somewhat competent programmer
Agreed again. Sadly, I don't think I have a calling for programming. I were drawn to trading and invested massive amounts of time and effort educating myself as a trader over a period of several years. Sadly, I'm not a success story yet.
The calling doesn't occur overnight... It takes hundreds of hours of persistence before a change occurs in your brain. Before the proverbial lightbulb appears. Only then does the unknowable become known, the unattainable becomes attained, what was difficult becomes easy. Are you giving up before you've even started? Regarding trading, have you "failed" at many different ideas? Or have you failed the same way X number of times. To the former, Edison would say that you haven't made enough attempts. Success will occur, but only if you are persistent, only if you toss the failure aside and try again. To the latter, Einstein would consider you insane. Grasshopper, you do not know jade. Come back in 1 year.
what makes you think you ever will? Why not learning something that you can at least capitalize on in terms of future job? Why have you still not picked up a programming book, tried some code and started to poke us with questions here?
I spent a lot of time and research wading through crap before I even found something I wanted to delve deeper into. I think I was and am well on my way. It's not like I was totally clueless or oblivious to what the market was doing day by day. But considering my personal situation, I decided it was smart to get an education before it was too late. Now, someone will probably say how that shows I don't have what it takes, am not dedicated enough and what have you, but I don't care and people can say what they want. In one way, I regret choosing this path four years ago knowing what I know now. But on the other hand, I'm glad I took the risk and actually gave it a shot. What makes you think I have not? Trust me, I won't poke you with anything.
You seem to contradict yourself on several ends: You said you failed at what you were doing before, trading wise. Now you want to get an engineering degree which hardly gets you any closer to success in trading but you say you look for programming courses and ask which ones will beneficial in order to assist in your trading effort down the road. That leads to the conclusion you still want to continue your trading attempt, which makes me wonder why you think you will get any further ahead in terms of trading? What makes me wonder whether you have what it takes to succeed in trading? Simple * You lack the curiosity to make it happen. I have not seen you asking questions what you have done wrong and what is lacking and missing to get ahead. You equally expressed clearly you have no interest to work in a professional trading environment, thus you hardly will get a chance to meet a mentor talented and willing enough to teach you. So, I do not see a way you ever make discretionary trading work for yourself. * You also seem to lack a strong interest or drive to develop the technical skills to delve into automated trading. If you really were interested in programming you would have already identified which language you should learn and apply to solve problems in automated trading. Instead you ask some absolute basic questions about programming courses as if we are still in the 1980s without internet and search engines. You can forever reject to take advice even from those who appear arrogant and who you seem to not want to connect with. But that is possibly the biggest red flag and giveaway that clearly shows you just do not have the necessary drive to make it happen in trading. Trading is possibly the most challenging career of them all. The market is a merciless judge each day, you can't just hang around and smile and pretend all is well, because at the end of the day you know exactly how you have performed and there is no lying about. What bloody newgrads on trading floors learn in the first week is to still ask questions even when being yelled at, even when being put down, even when the questions are considered stupid. If you want to make it in one of the most competitive jobs in the world then I believe you need to step up and shift into higher gear. You sound like a frustrated retail trader who tried all the typical Technical Analysis crap and, no surprise failed utterly, and burned a bundle of cash on the way. You can now stand around and continue day dreaming and hoping that some magic happens and you suddenly hold the holy grail in your hands or you can step up and admit that you need to work harder but especially SMARTER to really learn what it takes to acquire real knowledge that is marketable and that provides an edge. Or you can give up and move on and be an engineer or whatever else you chose. Of course you can also go ahead and dismiss the sound advice of this arrogant bastard which is me. But I tell that your current attitude is just not sufficient to even make a mentor want to coach you, whether be physically at your location, here, or anyplace else. There are enough time wasters on this site, if you really want to learn then drop your own arrogant attitude and admit that you know shit about trading, and show you are willing to learn from whomever. But your last sentence already shows that you may have a hard time to drop your attitude.