What are the HFT scum up to?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by stock777, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. A lot of quotes is likely a rounding error, or two algo's leap frogging each other.

    Rounding: Make a 1c spread. Oops that looks like I made a 0.999c spread. Cancel. OK, make a 1c spread.

    Repeat.

    ...

    Leap forgging:

    Algo 1: Be the best ask, but only if there's SOMEONE else there.

    Algo 2: Be the best ask, but only if there's NOONE else there.

    GO...

    Algo 1: Ah, there's someone else there. I quote.

    Algo 2: Oh crap, someone else is there. I cancel.

    Algo 1: Oh crap, there's noone else there. I cancel.

    Algo 2: Ah, there's noone else there. I quote.

    Repeat.
     
    #31     Apr 26, 2012
  2. 100% correct

    It's an attempt to improve the offer.

     
    #32     Apr 26, 2012
  3. I consider this comment a confession that I was right all along, and no rational argument FOR hft is now possible.

    I declare , once again, victory.
     
    #33     Apr 26, 2012
  4. So here's a reminder to everyone who thinks trading is difficult because of HFT: You'd most likely be a bad trader regardless of HFT. If you're not able to find a way to adapt to a changing market, what makes you think you have what it takes to be successful? I know numerous successful daytraders in the current market, some of them trading on Sterling, which is not co-located at any exchange and pretty slow compared to other trading platforms.

    The original article posted is really reaching for reasons why HFT is bad, for example they wrote this in large font:

    "If every subscriber printed out this one second of quotes in PSSI, it would consume about 250,000 trees or a dense forest 4 times bigger than Walt Disney World in Florida. And the stack of paper would reach into space (118 miles above earth)."

    Who cares at all? Who the hell is printing out these quotes? They're trying so hard to denounce HFT but use the silliest reasons.

    If you can't find a way to stay competitive in a modern market, just give up. There's plenty of bright people out there who can trade successfully without HFT, why blame HFT for your trading woes?
     
    #34     Apr 26, 2012
  5. Dustin

    Dustin

    How do you know HFT can't stuff the pipe and remove the quote in their own feed allowing for latency arb? I think they do this all the time.

    I think on this thread there's a bit of confusion between algo's and HFT. Imo the algo's that have replaced the human do directly affect our earnings by reacting faster to situations that take us longer.

    Hft on the other hand probably don't affect most of us on a daily basis. They are fighting against each other, mostly in the latency arb game. I subscribe to HFT Alert and see it happen all day long in all the big names.
     
    #35     Apr 26, 2012
  6. HFT is basically being able to detect a quote change and reacting to the quote change as fast as possible.

    Possible reactions

    1). adjusting your own quotes
    2). hitting or lifting the bid or offer


    That's basically it.
     
    #36     Apr 26, 2012

  7. What PRIMARY quote source allows you to tell it which symbols you want to receive information for and filters out the rest?

    Primary meaning, NASDAQ, BATS, NYSE, UQDF....
     
    #37     Apr 26, 2012
  8. Crispy

    Crispy

    That or a minimal time the quote remains. Say 5 seconds. About the length of time a person can enter an order then quickly pull it as they realized they may not want the trade at all.
     
    #38     Apr 26, 2012
  9. Dustin

    Dustin

    Whether they are able to use their quote source in that manner, or just tell their own servers not to process the data that they stuff down the pipe to everyone else...I don't know.

    Excerpt from zerohedge:
    "Competition between HFT systems today has reached the point where microseconds matter. Any edge one has to process information faster than a competitor makes all the
    difference in this game. If you could generate a large number of quotes that your competitors have to process, but you can ignore since you generated them, you gain valuable processing time."
    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ho...6-and-threatens-destroy-entire-market-any-mom
     
    #39     Apr 26, 2012
  10. :confused:


    What's so bad about an algo testing the market to see where orders get skittish/aggressive???





     
    #40     Apr 26, 2012