is what you say true? if the existence of something is not obvious and evidence "for" is shaky, am i irrational for concluding not believing? No, I don't think so. To believe in something for which there is little or no justification IS irrational. Most certainly irrational is belief with certitude as in theism! i dont believe in existence of unicorns or the green martians or fornons (an imaginary particle i just made up ) either. Am i irrational here too?? Certainly not, insufficient evidence exists for belief but i am open to change should this condition change. this is the rational thought.
no you have no fear of sky, but other than this there is little difference between you and those primitives.. you, as they, allow belief to attach itself without reasonable justification. it is not rational to fear the sky and not rational to hold with certitude the belief in a creator. you and they [sadly] are much more alike than different. :eek:
A thought only: Would it be possible that God (just like the concepts of mass, gravity, square root of -1, etc.) by its nature could be merely a concept/ construct/ spirit for those people who seek God? I would think that a concept/ construct/spitir (God) with some decent charcteristics and features such as forgiveness, kindness, tolerance, acceptance, self-giving love, constructive-mind, positive-heart, etc. should be universally promoted to all human beings, disregarding the brands/labels. Bible (whatever traditions) in its age possibly was the most and advanced scienticfic findings/writings by the most serious and earnest writers/ scientists/ inventors of the time who were fully immersed by the concept/ constrct/ spirit.
It would be pity that if no scientists in our history would have spent their valuable time and energy to seriously and willingly carry out any rational and logical investigations reseraching about God by using their (God-given) scientific abilities/ talents! ?
One would say a spiritual person believes more in the Spirit (God) who inspires the Bible, whereas a religious person believes more in the Bible which delimits the Spirit (God).
Possibly: If without a commonly agreed definition of God, any statement and discussion about "There is no God", "God doesn't exist", or "I don't believe in (your) God" would be not only fruitless, but also illogical.
good thoughts, oddtrader. no need to be confused. religion is something that you are told, religious people are generally sheep. spiritual, on the other hand, comes from within the person. it is an inner knowing that can not be explained rationaly as the language is lacking in this regard. best, surfer
for the purpose of this dicussion isnt it enuf to define god as a first-order "creator" of all? I think that would cover about 99.9% of spiritual beliefs here.
this is a cop out. you cant explain or rationally support your belief so you conveniently assert that language or our other reductionistic tools are hopelessly inadequate. but there was a time when you DID attempt to justify yourself here.. failed and now like the fox in Aesop's fable decided you never wanted the grapes in first place http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Aesop/Aesops_Fables/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes_p1.html