To be theist is to be irrational, so this depends on your definition of "stupid". Would anyone be foolish enuf to claim irrational thought is "smart" thought? that it is intelligent to be unreasonable? So, one wonders just how many irrational beliefs one is entitled to before one becomes in fact "stupid". Is one GRAND SUPER DUPER UNJUSTIFIED BELIEF [ie CREATION] enuf? Quite possibly so...
Non sequiter - you're conclusion proceeds from an illogical, ill-founded, and unproven premise. Objection your honor - assumes facts not in evidence. You'll need to first prove that a belief in a higher creative intelligence is "irrational" - and BTW, your opinion or your own "belief" isn't proof.
i don't know about LongShot, but i am open to the idea of higher intelligence. i'm not saying this is what i believe, but i don't eliminate the possibility. the problem i have is when human beings claim to actually know the bible, or some other man-made explanation, IS the answer to it all with EXTREMELY weak (or zero) evidence of its claims. i mean, come on, click on this link (http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/) and tell me with intellectual honesty that MAN has all the answers--bullshit we do!! therefore, i think it is safe to say believing in the bible is irrational.
Albert Einstein, German born American threoretical physicist (1879-1955). "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." [From a letter Einstein wrote in English, dated 24 March 1954. It is included in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, published by Princeton University Press. "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Linus Carl Pauling, American chemist (1901-1994). For information on Pauling, visit the Ava Helen & Linus Pauling Papers project at Oregon State University. Democritus, Greek philosopher (460?-357 BCE). The father of Materialism. Argued that mechanical relationships or arrangements of the atoms account for various characteristics of nature, the intimation here being that the natural order of the world resulted from chance. Even morality, the soul, and all mental life are reducible to mechanistic terms with physical imperceptible atoms as their basic structure. Spiritual reality does not exist; what appears to be spiritual is attributed simply to subperceptible atomic structure or else to mere superstition. Hence, the Democritan philosophy of mechanistic Materialism is complete, self-sufficient, and self-contained. Benjamin Franklin, American statesman, scientist, writer, printer (1706-1790). "Many a long dispute among divines may be thus abridged: It is so; It is not so. It is so; it is not so." "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." James Madison, American president and political theorist (1751-1836). "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution." "In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people." "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." Simon Bolivar, Venezuelan soldier and South American liberator (1783-1830). Atheist. Excommunicated by the Catholic Church. Charles Darwin, English naturalist (1809-1882). From the age of forty he was, to use his own words, a complete disbeliever in Christianity. He professed himself an Agnostic, regarding the problem of the universe as beyond our solution, "For myself," he wrote, "I do not believe in any revelation. As for a future life, every man must judge for himself between conflicting vague probabilities." "It appears to me (whether rightly or wrongly) that direct arguments against christianity and theism produce hardly any effect on the public; and freedom of thought is best promoted by the gradual illumination of men's minds which follows from the advance of science." John T. Stuart, Lincoln's first law partner: "He was an avowed and open infidel, and sometimes bordered on Atheism...He went further against Christian beliefs and doctrines and principles than any man I ever heard." Joseph Lewis quoting Lincoln in a 1924 speech in New York: "The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." Lincoln in a letter to Judge J.S. Wakefield, after the death of Willie Lincoln: "My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them." As a young man Lincoln apparently wrote a manuscript that he planned to publish, which vehemently argued against the divine origin of the Bible and the Christian scheme of salvation. Samuel Hill, a friend and mentor, convinced him to drop it, considering the disastrous consequences it would have on his political career. Sigmund Freud, Austrian physician and pioneer psychoanalyst (1856-1939). "It would be very nice if there were a God who created the world and was a benevolent providence, and if there were a moral order in the universe and an after-life; but it is a very striking fact that all this is exactly as we are bound to wish it to be." "In the long run, nothing can withstand reason and experience, and the contradiction religion offers to both is palpable." "The whole thing is so patently infantile, so foreign to reality, that to anyone with a friendly attitude to humanity it is painful to think that the great majority of mortals will never be able to rise above this view of life." Mao Tse-tung, Chinese Communist leader and theorist (1893-1976). Ayn Rand, Russian born American author (1905-1982). Richard Feynman, American physicist (1918-1988). Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author (1934-1996). There was an article, "In the Valley of the Shadow" in the March 10, 1996 issue of Parade Magazine in which Sagan discussed his atheistic beliefs in the face of his own death. In a March 1996 profile by Jim Dawson in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, Sagan talked about his then-new book The Demon Haunted World and was asked about his personal spiritual views. "My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it," he said. "An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic." Frank Zappa, American musician (1940-1993). "Who you jivin' with that cosmic debris?" "Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." "If you want to get together in any exclusive situation and have people love you, fine -- but to hang all this desperate sociology on the idea of The Cloud-Guy who has The Big Book, who knows if you've been bad or good -- and CARES about any of it -- to hang it all on that, folks, is the chimpanzee part of the brain working." Thomas Jefferson - American president, Author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat: "Deist, avid separationist. Question boldly even the existence of God. I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature. Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites. History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose. The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
maybe this is a good way to put it: on the subject of the origins of the universe/man, you have a stupid opinion if either: 1) you believe what you believe because you were told/suggested it, probably at an early age by family/friends. (BE OBJECTIVE HERE! brainwashed people will claim they are not brainwashed; that is expected. don't just say, "me, brainwashed? no way!") 2) in the face of science, having no evidence to support your claim, and no pressure from family/friends to have a set of beliefs, you STILL choose a religious explanation. (it's rare and pathetic, but it can happen.) HOWEVER, you may still be intelligent when it comes to other subjects.
that is all a great mind should need. note the, "...so far as our science can reveal it." science is ongoing and changing. NOT RIGID LIKE RELIGION. as science reveals more, (a great) man's beliefs evolve with it. GREAT quotes, dgabriel.
To be reasonable or rational is to have sufficient proof or logical grounds, and the will to use it with the presupposition that one changes one's notions when & where required. Theistic FAITH or BELIEF demands certitude, unfailing unconditional conviction. Is it rational to hold such a perfect belief? No. The true theist holds either irrational certitude OR he is not a true theist in which case he will go to hell [or whatever nasties his god dictates for imperfect belief] A true theist is irrational by definition, but an untrue [imperfect] theist is not necessarily rational [if you can call him a theist at all]. This particular "theist" may proclaim his BELIEF or FAITH but cannot give valid reasons so he also is irrational. The third "theist", the other with imperfect belief [he like other is 90% sure], may attempt to marshall "facts" and logical proof in support but the grand question remains: Does there exist sufficient logical grounds for theism? This is open to dispute to say the least so how can this theist reach sufficient justification or proof at this uncertain time? He can't, he is also irrational. [BTW, this theist is also going to hell ] Therefore, All theists are irrational.
i've been thinking about if i should consider myself an atheist or agnostic. my position is that i don't believe in man-made gods, unless there is proof. but what i don't like about the agnostic definition is that is says, "...it is impossible to know..." i would say i'm agnostic if i could rephrase it to: somebody who does not know whether or not God exists, believes man-made "Gods" are probably false, and only believes in science, whatever it may prove or disprove, and ALSO DOES NOT KNOW if it is possible or impossible to know if a god exists. agnostic = somebody denying Godâs existence is provable: somebody who believes that it is impossible to know whether or not God exists atheist = somebody who does not believe in God or deities LongShot, axeman, etc. (the non-religious), what do you consider yourself? BTW, gotta love this:
It is interesting to note the Hebrew term for devotion to religion: It is "Yirat shamayim". Translated, this means "afraid of the sky". Isn't this just the perfect way to characterize someone who is primitive/barbaric/superstitious? Primitive people cowering, afraid of the sky.
almost all of you seem, to my simple thinking, to be appealing to authority to bolster your arguments. I learned in my introduction to logic class this is a fallacious way of arguing (debating). In his book (I forget the title), Sagan reiterated for those without the benefit of having gotten an introduction to logic at some point, the things to look for in argumentative debate that mark fallacious reasoning or deduction. Belief in God is a sales job based on inductive proofs. To put it in its clearest context. But then, in order for anything to happen in the business world someone has to buy something. In other words, tat person is 'sold' something. So, if you find yourself in the presence of someone wanting to 'sell' you on the idea of God, just be aware that is what it is. You can either 'buy' or not. It is your choice. Like all choices, and all of life, there are consequences. That's all there is to it.