I'll post it again, read carefully. The T/A was ever so basic BUT....you still need to follow the news and not just charts. The advice to "eliminate the noise" out there and not utilize the media is bad advice ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is one example. Got it? Or do I need to email it to you at your OTA email address. LOL
I'll post it again, read carefully. The T/A was ever so basic BUT....you still need to follow the news and not just charts. The advice to "eliminate the noise" out there and not utilize the media is bad advice ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok. Do you need a translater?
Yes please translate. Thatâs a pretty general statement. Please tell me what basic TA is? What indicators if any are you referring to? How are you using them or how did OTA teach you to use them? How do you utilize the media? What media in particular are you using? Really AM when I asked the questions I expected a lot more information and a lot less fluff.
Why would anyone want a course from people who can't trade profitably on 50 to 1 margin , and can earn 10 times more money from trading by using the margin to magnify profits ?
Dead dog wrote: I keep asking but never seem to get an answer. What did you expect to learn that wasnât taught? What was taught that cost you money? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My reply was... For a 7 day class, I expected a lot more information and a lot less fluff and I did not expect to be hussled during class time. I didn't pay $5,000 for a glorified informercial and to be inundated with sales pitch after sales pitch after sales pitch ad infinitum. The T/A was ever so basic BUT....you still need to follow the news and not just charts. The advice to "eliminate the noise" out there and not utilize the media is bad advice and cost many of us tens of thousands of dollars. Does that answer your question Deaddog, Or do you need more? And has been mentioned by many of us, the trainers were not that good. Most were downright boring. And once again I ask, if their product is so good, why not offer at least a 30 day money back guarantee that will let you test the product isntead of hyping the value and setting the class after the 3 day right to cancel period. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Still waiting for a response.
I will try and respond: What kind of information did you expect? What the hell is âfluffâ? Sounds to me like you did. Whether you need to follow the media hype is a debateable point. Personally I donât but that is my choice and seems to work for me. Did you want to be educated or entertained? If you are doing it right trading is downright boring. Now that is not a bad idea. How would you set it up and protect yourself from fraud? Would it be up to the student to show that what was taught had no chance of making money? I can see that working. If the student can document a series of trades where they followed the teachings and lost money consistently, then they should be given a refund. The responsibility for proving that the education was substandard would be on the student, but would give him some recourse. You probably would get your money back if you just claimed , "I expected a lot more information and a lot less fluffâ Do you see what Iâm trying to find out here AM? Tell me what you were taught and why it didnât work. Show me what you were taught. Show me a trading plan. What are the criteria to enter? Where are the exits? How much of your account are you willing to put at risk? What are the results of back tests and forward tests? Be specific. Donât give me fluff.
Quote from AM Bankus: Still waiting for a response. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I will try and respond: AM Bankus response: Really, you will try to respond? Can't wait. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For a 7 day class, I expected a lot more information and a lot less fluff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What kind of information did you expect? What the hell is âfluffâ? AM Bankus response: I expected education and training, not a trainer who reads from a book, talks about his world travels for hours and hours on our time and tries to upsell us to another more expensive class on OUR TIME. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn't pay $5,000 for a glorified informercial and to be inundated with sales pitch after sales pitch after sales pitch ad infinitum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sounds to me like you did. AM Bankus response. Exactly my complaint. We agree on one point. Hooray! And you finally addressed it. I'm impressed! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The T/A was ever so basic BUT....you still need to follow the news and not just charts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Whether you need to follow the media hype is a debateable point. Personally I donât but that is my choice and seems to work for me. AM Bankus. I never said "media hype" I said news. Hype is your terminology, not mine. Refusing to follow the news is irresponsible. Even in the OTA Manuals, it is suggested that you start your day by turning on Bloomberg and CNBC. Then in the class, the trainer says something different. They call it "noise" Got it, or do I need to repeat that a couple of dozen times. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The trainers were not that good. Most were downright boring. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did you want to be educated or entertained? If you are doing it right trading is downright boring. AM Bankus response. When or where did I say that I wanted to be entertained. I said the trainers were not that good. Most people understand that means they were not good trainers. They appeared to be people who took a quick class on t/a (or perhaps just read a book) and now think they are trainers. Got it or do I need to repeat that too several times? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And once again I ask, if their product is so good, why not offer at least a 30 day money back guarantee that will let you test the product isntead of hyping the value and setting the class after the 3 day right to cancel period. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now that is not a bad idea. How would you set it up and protect yourself from fraud? Would it be up to the student to show that what was taught had no chance of making money? I can see that working. If the student can document a series of trades where they followed the teachings and lost money consistently, then they should be given a refund. The responsibility for proving that the education was substandard would be on the student, but would give him some recourse. You probably would get your money back if you just claimed , "I expected a lot more information and a lot less fluffâ AM Bankus response. I believe that some responsibility should fall on the student that they actually used the product, placed some trades and applied what they learned. Once again, this is exactly the problem with OTA, it is by following their bad advice that so many lose money. The program doesn't work. Offering a 30 day guarantee to let clients use the program first would prove that OTA has a quality product, if that were the case. The fact is that if OTA did offer a money back guarantee with the parameters I suggested, everyone would want their money back for the same reason that so many drop out - their program doesn't work. I am NOT advocating an easy out for someone to get their money back. When I was enrolled, I was under the assumption that I could EARN the investment I made back. In this case, it was not an investment, it was like a depreciating expense. Like just blowing $5,000 on nothing and that is not what I expected or the why the OTA product was sold to me. In short. I was sold one product but recieved something quite different. Got it or do you need a extension of that? While I want to think that you are sincere, your responses appear more and more like SPIN to me. So now some questions for you * How did you learn how to trade OR better yet, do you really trade in the markets. What market, stocks, futures, options, Forex, real estate?? * Have you been successful? What are your typical returns like? * Where did you learn how to trade, if indeed you really do? * Do you have a trading plan? * If you don't follow news, then what is your trading strategy. Do you even have a strategy? * What is your relationship with OTA? If you have none, then why are you here and who the heck are you anyway? * What is your interest here?? * How frequently do you trade, if in fact you really do? * What size trades do you place? If any. * What is your net worth, north or south of 1 million??? * Do you really want facts or so you just like to focus on SPIN?? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does that answer your question Deaddog, Or do you need more? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you see what Iâm trying to find out here AM? Tell me what you were taught and why it didnât work. Show me what you were taught. Show me a trading plan. What are the criteria to enter? Where are the exits? How much of your account are you willing to put at risk? What are the results of back tests and forward tests? Be specific. Donât give me fluff. AM Bankus response. As I have stated before, much of what we were taught was basic t/a. If you are familiar with t//a, that should not require any further explanation. You should be familiar ( I HOPE) with double tops, double bottoms, head and shoulders, ascending trianagle, descending triangle, MACD, Bollinger Bands, Fibonacci etc. And yes I have a trading plan. So one more time, what OTA offers is general basics. It can be found in any book. The trainers that I experienced did a horrible job teaching which is I beleive what they are supposed to do. I learned more and am doing better teaching myself and reading books than I learned from the OTA class. And one more time, perhaps if OTA had their trainers spend more time teaching and working with the clients instead of showing slides from their world travels and trying to upsell us right during the class and then showing us video archives to upsell us to their XLT class for only $10,000, students would be happier with the class. In short, I didn't pay to be solicited. I paid for training and to be taught.. I didn't pay for sales pitch after sales pitch after sales pitch ad infinitum during class time that I paid for. Ok Dog, got it or do I need to repeat it again?
Bankus - Are you presently trading? Obviously, trading is like any profession - some have an aptitude for it and others do not. Note - I'm not making any assumptions about your abilities as a trader.
Which I will try and answer to your satisfaction. Yes I really trade. Mostly swing trading stocks. I have day traded stocks and the e-minis but found it took too much time. My education has come mainly from the school of hard knocks. Keep trying stuff and find what doesnât work and stop doing that. I like to think Iâm successful. I fund my lifestyle with my trading. Typically returns vary year to year, Anywhere from a 15% drawdown to 60% profit. Last year was just under 16% . Iâve been around for a while. Started with a fullservice broker until I figured out that they were just salesmen. Move to discounters and probably made all the mistakes that one can make. It was just luck, and a hell of a bull market up till the crash of 2000 that I didnât completely blow up my account. Like I said I learned from my mistakes. yes a very comprehensive one. I scan stocks for my technical criteria. I have several strategies but mainly play momo stocks that are moving to new highs. I never look at the news. A lot of the times I donât even know what the company does. It doesnât matter to me, all that matters is that the stock moves in the direction of my trade after I enter the trade. I had an offer from OTA to attend the free lunch thingy. I checked out their web site. I searched for them here and found this thread. I havenât taken them up on their offer because I couldnât get a straight answer from them about what I would learn. I would hate to pay for something I already know. I had hoped to find out what it was they taught. Itâs really hard to get anyone including you to tell me. They teach basic TA doesnât tell me anything. What I want to know is how they use basic TA to enter and exit trades. I watch the market almost daily and trade when I get a signal. I swing trade, I may hold a position for a day or a month if it meets my criteria. Why close out a position that continues to move in your direction? Theres a lot of wisdom in the old adage to cut the losers short and let the winners run. This year so far Iâve closed 5 positions, all for small losses and have seen all of them recover. If I liquidate my account tomorrow Iâll still have a healthy profit. I usually risk 1% of my trading capital on each trade. Iâll take the 5th on that one. My net worth seems irrelevant. I live quite comfortably on a 10% return. Just the facts and the more specific you can be the better. Thatâs why I keep asking questions. Phrases like basic TA and fluff lead to assumptions which lead to misunderstanding.