Dead Dog wrote: Here is a list of the careersâ offered by OTA on their web site. Only instructors are required to have trading experience. Everyone else requires sales experience. Instructors: 3 years of âliveâ trading within the last 5 years. (At least 10 full transactions per month â must be willing to show proof of trades) Presenters:: Sales experience including the ability to adapt your presentation to interests and objections raised by your audience. Education Director: The successful Education Director will be a proven sales professional, an exceptional motivator and team leader and will champion the Online Trading Academy sales model. Education Counsellor: The Education Counselor, or EC, guides current and prospective students toward a successful experience at Online Trading Academy. He or she has the ability to listen closely and suggest an appropriate study plan and development path depending on the studentâs interests, experience and aptitude. At the same time, you need to be a salesperson in order to convince students to make the tuition investment to advance their skills to the next level. Center Administrator: Support sales process by preparing materials, greeting and registering seminar and class attendees, maintaining an inventory of manuals and products, preparing various operations and sales reports and ensuring that the sales database is accurate and up to date. I was just trying to point out that most of their positions are sales which is why I didn't fall for thier pitch. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Congratulations! I actually agree with you. Unfortunately what is left out in the Online Trading Academy's definition is the total lack of professionalism, at least in Orlando. So ok Dead Dog, we are together on one thing.
Dead Dog Asks, Why is it important that the instructors or the employees are making money? What should be important is whether what they teach can help you make money. You still havenât given me a specific example of how they failed to teach what they promised in the course outline. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well aside from the fact that we are told that OTA trainers are making money hand over fist and have to maintain at least a 70% profit margin, I generally listen to people who are successful traders. At least better than me. Of all the classes I took I found only one trainer who I would call a professional trader who was also a good teacher. The others were horrible teachers and I doubt if they knew a stock from a rock. For example one of the trainers saw me with a copy of IBD under my arm when I came to class. He just laughed and said, "If I want a stock quote I could get it off the internet for free and you're getting yesterdays stock quote no less." And then he laughed. Aside from being a crude anda very unprofessional thing to say to a student, this man was showing me his total lack of market knowledge by assuming that I or anyone was reading IBD only to get a stock quote which of course was not my purpose. Later I saw him in one of the offices on break time and asked him if he was trading and how the markets were doing. "Me? No, not trading. I don't trade." Then he pointed to the wall and said, "They have CNBC on the tv set. You can see for yourself how the market is doing." Are you starting to get the picture now or do you need an extension of that? Hmmmm. You see, I thought OTA trainers were supposed to be successful traders and maintain a 70% profit margin and this guy says he doesn't even trade and couldn't be bothered to chat. Looking forward to that ALL STAR EVENT next week. Who knows, maybe that homeless guy will show up and pull another one over OTA again. LOL.
Yes you are right. I never did get an answer as to what he specifically expected to learn. In an earlier post I was wondering what it was that didnât work and why. Never did get a straight answer. Iâm not sure I had a point to make. I constantly hear traders state that this or that doesnât work. Iâve yet to see a specific example. A more correct statement would be âThis doesnât work for me.â Fighting Scams youâd probably be more effective in your crusade to save the innocent from the clutches of OTA by showing them where and how they can get the same education at a much lower cost. Unfortunately you canât save everyone. Anyway like the guy who repeatedly bangs his against a concrete wall because it feels so good when he stops; Iâll cease and desist. Man that does feel good
Iâve already covered this ad nauseum It was at the point my supposed retirement account manager lost a big chunk of my retirement â decided then and there to fire his ass So I needed to learn about âallâ aspects of trading â as I knew nothing. Was it worth it â yes⦠The tuition was deductibleâ¦, and I also receive a commensurate commission discount from the brokerâ¦. (Basically doubled my money â Iâll take that trade any day) And yes I would do it all over again This'll piss FS (sorry FOS) off :eek: RN
"I am not so worried of the return on my money as I am of the return of my money." - Will Rogers. People who get sucked into Online Trading Academy's circus, sorry. Good bye money
Fly fisher wrote: About 20 years ago while I was attending grad school in the Bay area I sat in one of these by Martin Pring. Grad school had off campus classes in office buildings/office parks and he was doing a T/A course with the same sort of schpiel. Students were invited to attend. I sat in for about half an hour. I had already been trading very successfully at that time for around a decade. Needless to say I found it all humorous. What these Trading courses really are are T/A courses. These marketing people have done the same thing in real estate for decades trying to lure in suckers. They put together some TA that you can get out of Edwards/Magee wrap it all together with some slick marketing and promises of $$$ and suckers line up. There are always suckers looking for the hot stock tip and get rich quick schemes whether in real estate or now (the last decade or so) in the stock market. The financial markets attract newbie in droves. The ease of entry attracts fodder for the cannons. The lack the skills and abilities causes the masses to end up road kill one way or another. Whether they lose part of their $$ to scam artists or to the markets.......it's inevitable. Nothing new. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My experience exactly. Except it was the most basic of T/A and the instructor was horrible. Nobody knew what he was talking about nor did he. When he attempted a few trades in class during market hours, all of the trades went in the opposite direction. LOL Everyday the classes started late and there were frequent breaks which we really didn't need. The instructors rambled on and on about nonsense. One of the instructors was showing slides of his world wide adventures and was trying to sell us a device he supposedly created. Even the class that we paid for was a high pitch time share like sales event. Then the so called counselors "used car salesmen" kept coming in and telling us about the special of the day. No wonder they design the classes for 5-7 days. If they took out the crap and sales pitches, they could offer the same or better information in 2-3 days. Online Trading Academy is just one big sales pitch and obviously, based on the number of posts by that Online Traidng Academy employee now using 2-3 aliases and talking to himself (or herself) we have shaken them up. GOOD! Can't wait for the ALL STAR EVENT in Orlando next week. I bet that homeless guy brings 4-5 of his buddies. Get them out of the cold and even the slop that Online Trading Academy offers to it's "students" I am sure would be like a feast compared to what those homeless people usually eat. For those unfamiliar with the OnlineTrading Academy ALL STAR EVENTS, they are the grandest of the sales pitches. Looks like a Ringling Brothers Circus with people running all around and nobody knowing what the heck they are doing. If nothing else it is entertaining and if you are not doing anything, you should go. It's worth the laugh. CAUTION: Leave your wallet, checkbook and credit cards home and walk out when one of those sleezy used car salesmen approaches you. When they approach you that means, YOU'RE NEXT to be called into the hot seat (closing room) where they will do everything they can to CLOSE YOU!
Quote from marketsurfer: Disagree. There is no barrier to entry to "teach" trading. College Professors need PhD's, Plumbers need to be certified, Lawyers need to pass the Bar Exam. The Pro traders who teach, are not real pro traders otherwise they would not be teaching for $$--- for free, sure, but not for cash. Just ask to see audited statements, ask to observe their trading for a week, ask for clients with whom they manage money for--- RARE is the guru who will produce any of these things. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Response +1, totally agree. If they are great traders, why don't they instead trade 1000 ES contracts and with a few trades per day they would earn much more with much less effort. People, use logic and common sense. In the end what matters is profit, not the materials and not the presentation. Since these people can't trade profitably (if they did, they'd spam their audited records at every newbie), what use are their materials? Long time ago, I used to help organize similar seminars which had much less selling, more educating and for a fraction of the cost. Since I was just helping around and had time to observe; I noticed most of the people attending were hopeful and naive, they didn't have a clue what successful trading through different market conditions really requires in terms on research, screen time etc. They seemed to believe it was just a work-from-home type of deal with high reward and a lot of free time - who could resist! Some of those people probably will eventually find out what it really takes but most will just fade away. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My take on this..... Anybody can teach a class on trading and investing. And unfortunately the people I came into contact with at Online Trading Academy were sales people, learned to talk the talk on trading, but were not competent trainers. I bought into the hype. Shame on them for getting me the first time, shame on me if I ever let it happen again OR let it happen to others. They are slick sales people. They paint the dream. But when you actually take the class, what you get is actually something quite different. The marketing presentation says one thing. The actual product is something quite different. In Orlando, at the presentation I went to, there was a black dude there claiming he was making $2,000 a day trading futures with real money. FACT: He traded in a demo account and didn't even have enough money to open an account ot trade let alone make any money. He also claimed he drove a $140,000 Mercedes. FACT: He didn't even have a car and rode on a $375,000 bus! LOL. Only a slight exageration. The other guy claimed he was making thousand's of $$$ a day trading the FOREX and was the resident FOREX expert. FACT. He was newly divorced and broke and traded like the other guy only in a demo account. His knowledge of the FOREX was very basic. I knew more from reading the website. None of the people I talked to, some of whom had taken and retaken the class several times over the course of a year or longer indicated that they were making money, all were losing money except one guy who was thrilled that he was barely breaking even after spending about $30,000 on classes at the "Academy". One individual said he was making money but with his own system not Online Trading Academy's. He said the only redeeming thing was that he could write the cost of the class off on his income taxes, after all, it was a total loss. Speaking of the retake provision, it is a joke. If everyybody who bought into this scheme retook the class, where in the world would you put them? The classroom only seats 20 people max. The fact is most people drop out from frustration either because the training really doesn't work and/or you get no useful help from either the trainers or the staff. Plus they are losing money by the bucketload and the cost of taking time off to come to class, lodging, gas and so on. It's simply not worth it. The tuiition reimbursement is farce. When you add up the higher commissions and higher interest rate for margin accounts PLUS the monthly fees that the broker they recommend charges, you will be paying for several more classes as compared to going with another broker. An analogy might be this. What if a local gas station told you that they will give you gas for .4 cents a gallon less than anybody else in your area. Sounds great right? But what if they said, "Ohby the way, there is a $99 monthly fee for this special service." How quickly would you be out the door and buying your gas elsewhere. The so called gains you will make by using this broker from preventing losses in slippage is another myth. The people who take classes at Online Trading Academy do not trade frequently enough or in enough volume to make this work. It is true that some professional, profitable traders uese this broker, many use other platforms but these professionals do not take classes from outfits like Online Trading Academy. They could probably teach but once again real professional traders trade to live their lifestyle not spend time in a classroom for 7 days. There is an old saying, "Those who can trade successfully do. Those who can't, teach." None of the students I talked to were happy with the tuition reimbursement program And by the way, if they change brokers as they did a few years ago when they stop using Terra Nova and switched to their current broker, you will lose all of your tuiition reimbursement credits. And of course if you finance the classes, you will be paying 18% interest! WHAT A RIPOFF! In the workshops we were told and this was reconfirmed when I was called into the hot seat - the closing room by one of the counselors i.e. "used car salesmen" that this class had a value of over $14,000, normally sells for $6,900.00 but was being offered today and only today for a "measly" $4,900.00, their words not mine. FACT: The real price of the class is $4900 which is already inflated. I don't think the class was even worth $100. The Online Trading Academy salesmen will try to sell you the accessory products like CD-ROMS and DVDs or sometimes add them in as comps if you upgrade to another class such as the XLT OR PASSPORT PROGRAMS. The CD-ROMS are at best basic and even though they claim to be valued at $195, $395 or $695 a set and the DVDs set is supposed to be worth $5,000. I would say that all of it combined is worth less than a $100.All of these materials are at least 6-10 years old and much of the material is outdated. Once they get you to enroll in their flagship course, the PRO TRADER, run your card and it clears, they will attempt immediately to upsell you to one of the other programs. And if you say no, they will beat you death with rebuttals. This is of course before they return your credit card and drivers license to you. Several people got so mad at this blatant high pressure selling that they walked out leaving behind their credit cards and ddrivers licenses and when they realized that they forgot them and came back to the OTA center, the sales circus started all over again. During classes, as stated before, we were constantly inundated with sales pitches. They had a working lunch and all they did was show XLT videos and give us all a sales talk on "continued education" RE: Continued High Pressure selling during our lunch break. On breaks, outside smoking and even in the restrooms, the counselors would follow us, make some basic small talk and then hit us with another sales pitch. It was sales pressure ad nauseum. It is funny how they try to be charismatic at first, but that all changes very quickly. Once again, these were my experiences in Orlando, but from reading this thread and others, it appears to be happening at other Online Trading Academy centers as well. BUT...don't take my word for it or others who have posted ahead of me. Go to other seminars in your area. Join some meetup groups. Most are free and offer some good information. Rub shoulders with some really successful traders and investors. The IBD and FOREX groups are particularly good. And while you are there, ask them what there experience has been with the local Online Trading Academy. I know what they are saying here in Orlando. Finally, when you go to any Online Trading Academy event, leave your wallet, checkbook and credit cards home and don't give themyour car keys. Don't laugh, in Orlando they actually did this to someone and insisted that a staff member would drive him home to get his cards or checkbook. Welcome to the world of Online Trading Academy/Orlando.
On 9/29/11 I wrote this..... My personal experience with Online Trading Academy (OTA) is that they make a lot of promises, a lot of statements but fall far short on delivering. If in fact their trading is audited by a third party (don't hold your breath), why won't they release it? If they had such a document, it would be posted on their walls, on their presentations and in their literature. Since it is not, isn't it safe to assume that it doesn't exist? The OTA model is based on time share sales gimmicks. You come in for a FREE presentation with the promise of FREE gifts and then once you are in there you are nailed with a 1980's type of boiler room broker selling mixed in with a used car salesman approach. Easy to see why OTA is running so many ads and informercials desperately trying to get people into their "time share" like facade. Their strategy is not working. However, it should be noted that it's not fair to compare OTA to Time Share. The Time Share presentations are more professional and the gifts are better. And if you think the Power Trading Workshops (PTW's) are a joke, try attending one of their "offsite" or "ALL STAR EVENTS" These are just glorified versions of the PTW, only instead of just 1 used car salesman-speaker, you have 5,6 or more and again it is just one big sales pitch. They will tell you that they have special speakers coming from all over the world. For example, the event in Orlando last January, the primary speaker lives in Orlando about 2 miles from from the Orlando OTA office. The other speakers came from the corporate office in California and are part of the "seminar team" headed by a guy name Lance Straus who has worked with all of the seminar companies that have come and gone starting with Wade Cook and moving up. He has a horrible reputation in the industry. But wait a minute; I thought OTA was not a seminar company and didn't run hotel seminars? Guess again. This one was the Crowne Plaza in Orlando. Oh well. The PTW and the ALL STAR EVENTS I attended had most people walking out. The food was cheap danish, a lousy sub and the gifts were not even worth $5, let alone the $207 they claim. The cash prizes are just gift certificates intended to lure you to buy more of their overpriced products. And even though they will tell you the classes are being discounted, they are overpriced by at least 50% just to pay the expences of the seminar team that flies in from the corporate office in CA and the gal who drives 2 miles in Orlando. You were wise to see what was going on and killed the order. And you are not alone, my best guess is that at least 95% who go to the OTA circus do the same. To be fair, my association was with the OTA office in Orlando. Itis posisble that the other offices around the country are run more professionally, but from what I have been h earing, doesn;t sound like. By the way, I went through the PRO TRADER CLASS and then was shifted into the FUTURES CLASS and attended part of the PRO ACTIVE CLASS, FOREX and the OPTIONS CLASS. I didn't see any earth shaking information. The manager allowed me to shift around as I was totally unhappy with the flagship class PRO TRADER. The trainers, with the exception of the Futures Class were not that good and in fact downright boring. They was a lot of selling being done right in class that we paid for. Not the PTW which was a blatant sales scam, but the classes. Just wanted to give you a preview of that to expect if you signup for this gig. Their sales pitch is right out of a tin can. Save yourself a lot of time and aggravation and skip this one. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The only thing I would add at this point is a quote from Bill Cosby, "I word to the wise is not necessary. It's the stupid ones who need the advice." My experience from attending multiple classes at Online Trading Academy is that in addition to homeless people looking for a free lunch and warmth, the clientyle they attract is typically the naive from the get rich quick crowd who soak up late night informercials and when they sucked into the low down payment high interest financing and fall for the show and take classes, when it doesn't work, they are naive agaiin to believe that it is not OTA's fault. It was the market or they need to retake the class again and perhaps they will "get it" the 2nd time, the 3rd, time, the 10th time and so. One final note about Online Trrading Academy and their instructors, they tell us in class never to use limit orders or stops. Nuff said.
Why , I wonder ? That being asked, I think I know the answer: The intelligent and optimal placing of stop loss orders (and stop entries as well) is the toughest thing to learn. Bottomline: it cannot be taught...ONLY months and years of live trading can provide that knowledge.
Explain the following to me. http://www.tradingacademy.com/courses/Forex-Trader.aspx "Forex Trader Course Learn professional currency trading skills that can help you succeed in the fast-paced marketplace of Forex trading. In Part 1 (two days), youâll learn to trade currency pairs using the latest tools and software. In Part 2 (four days), youâll work the Forex market with a trading professional using live streaming data as you develop your own Forex currency trading system. Most students take both parts together, although you can also take them separately for convenience. Forex Trader Part 1 (2 Days): $1995 Forex Trader Part 2 (4 Days): $2995" Why the hell do *I* have to develop my own trading system? Am I not paying them kilobucks to teach me THEIR can't-lose trading system? LOL --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Their FOREX class was by far the worst of the classes that I had the misfortune of attending. AND the attendees all agreed. Instructor didn't seem to know what he was talking about. I was told by the manager and the counselor, that they let you trade with real money and there would be live trading, but once I got to class I was told (as where everyone else) that this was only applicable to the Pro Trader class and even in that class it is questionable if "real money" is used. As for a training system, if they have one, nobody seems to know about it. Perhaps they want us to design it for them and then they will market it and charge people for our ideas-LOL! They did talk about a trading plan but even that was a commercial for another class on "How To Design Your Trading Plan" and offered no real advice. This was what bothered all of us. It is one continous extended sales gimmick. This company is like a circus. If it didn't cost so much it would be funny. If you ever go to one of their carvival shows, leave your wallet, purse (ladies) checkbook and credit cards home and leave your drivers license in the car. Believe it or not they will ask you for that too. PT Barnum is probably rolling in his grave looking at these guys.