Taking this further, where do we go? End of any personal relationships at work, yet, this is the foundation to many people at work! Zero Tolerance is indeed: Intolerance! What is harassment or not is fuzzy, as with what is "hate speech" (speech you disagree with?) and not. I believe people need to get smart and more thick-skinned as well, but, that doesn't mean one should take advantage of someone in a less superior position, and vica versa. Women lying and talking behind backs, is a larger problem than common wisdom realize too. True, there is an equal problem of women victimization. In fact, on the face of it, seems everyone are brutally victimized multiple times here Something's perhaps more right than wrong too. Perhaps me should have a culture to celebrate that?
Hence the gender-biased inequity of #MeToo that cries out "sexual harassment" with no clear standards. Anything that a man does is "sexual" and "harassment" so of course men can never be wrongfully accused because how can he be? He looked at me and smiled and that's sexual because I am a woman and it's harassment because I don't like it. Oh sexual harassment!! Hence men are doing everything possible to avoid contacts with women to eliminate/reduce the possibility of doing something that can be perceived as or being used to allege sexual harassment!! This is NOT men with phobia of women; this is men trying to protect themselves in a society that does not respect truth and has no sense of morality or shame. And we are not talking about rape here. #MeToo LOVES to lump sexual harassment with rape. Rape is a serious criminal offense that has clear and viable standards for specific behaviour. If you are raped, you are supposed to call the police, not just HR and/or adding yourself to twitter with #MeToo! And a full criminal investigation will ensue. So enjoy your cheap labor of women while it lasts before one of them decided to accuse you of "sexual harassment" just because you shook her hand. But for the corporate world like Wall Street where the bottom line is literally on the table at all times, men would rather do away with the hassle of working with women and work in peace. Competing with other men is stress enough.
There should be clear, unambiguous and viable standards set nationwide that every single organization will adopt that spells out clear, specific behaviour standards of what is considered sexual harassment or not so both men AND women would have a clear understanding of what is expected of them. If somebody is going to lose his job, entire lifetime achievement, pension and even his family over this, then it shouldn't be "fuzzy". #MeToo of course wants everything to be fuzzy because they want to reserve the right to use this "sexual harassment" as a weapon to target whoever they want to get whatever they want and that's not acceptable. Just as much as women deserve a safe and respectful working environment, men deserve a fair and just working environment as well. If this cannot be achieved then maybe men and women shouldn't work together. Workplace is just that, a place to WORK and an organization shouldn't have to deal with this kind of "he said, she said, how much she said is true and how much he said is true" all the time. And if people can't deal with that, then maybe they shouldn't work at all!
Please provide an example, a single example, of a man who was accused of sexual harassment for shaking a woman's hand, or looking at them and smiling, or any of the other hyperbole I'm reading here! This is exactly what I'm talking about with going full on sniveling coward over something that just doesn't happen. Sexual harassment is clearly defined in any company's sexual harassment policy. If your company doesn't have such a policy then that's a fail on them not women in the workplace and if you don't understand the definition and no-one will explain it to you then again a fail on your employer. I'll put an example of the definition policy at the end of this post, if that isn't clear enough for someone or they think it includes a handshake I'd submit that person has some issues, not the policy. Let's be completely honest here. How many people do you know who are consummate professionals in the workplace have been accused of sexual harassment with a subsequent impact on their careers? Actual number here that you personally know. Zero I'm guessing? If you do know of such a case it would be vanishingly rare, on the order of your chances of getting hit by blue ice falling from an airplane. Is the guy who's always grab assing, telling off-color jokes, complaining about "political correctness" (which we once called basic civility), and generally being an ass eventually accused of sexual harassment? In the vast vast majority of cases, yes, and I have zero sympathy for him and anyone who would defend them. There are no doubt going to be women who falsely accuse men of sexual harassment. Just like there are people who falsely accuse others of any behavior that we've determined is detrimental and should be stopped. In no other cases do we adopt your perverse style of logic which seems to run something like "It's possible for someone to falsely accuse me of assault/larceny/rape/slander and the act itself has to be defined, so said behavior should be deemed acceptable and should certainly never be prosecuted". There's no doubt that those who falsely accuse someone of any crime, be that sexual harassment or robbery, should also be prosecuted for it. What you seem to be advocating, however, that sexual harassment is just too nebulous and ripe for abuse so we should just allow it, is lunacy! TLDR for you, "sexual harassment" is clearly defined and doesn't include handshakes or smiles. What Is “Sexual Harassment”? Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination and is unlawful under federal, state, and (where applicable) local law. Sexual harassment includes harassment on the basis of sex, sexual orientation, self-identified or perceived sex, gender expression, gender identity and the status of being transgender. Sexual harassment includes unwelcome conduct which is either of a sexual nature, or which is directed at an individual because of that individual’s sex when: • Such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual’s work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment, even if the reporting individual is not the intended target of the sexual harassment; • Such conduct is made either explicitly or implicitly a term or condition of employment; or • Submission to or rejection of such conduct is used as the basis for employment decisions affecting an individual’s employment. A sexually harassing hostile work environment includes, but is not limited to, words, signs, jokes, pranks, intimidation or physical violence which are of a sexual nature, or which are directed at an Page 3 of 8 individual because of that individual’s sex. Sexual harassment also consists of any unwanted verbal or physical advances, sexually explicit derogatory statements or sexually discriminatory remarks made by someone which are offensive or objectionable to the recipient, which cause the recipient discomfort or humiliation, which interfere with the recipient’s job performance. Sexual harassment also occurs when a person in authority tries to trade job benefits for sexual favors. This can include hiring, promotion, continued employment or any other terms, conditions or privileges of employment. This is also called “quid pro quo” harassment. Any employee who feels harassed should report so that any violation of this policy can be corrected promptly. Any harassing conduct, even a single incident, can be addressed under this policy. Examples of sexual harassment The following describes some of the types of acts that may be unlawful sexual harassment and that are strictly prohibited: • Physical acts of a sexual nature, such as: o Touching, pinching, patting, kissing, hugging, grabbing, brushing against another employee’s body or poking another employee’s body; o Rape, sexual battery, molestation or attempts to commit these assaults. • Unwanted sexual advances or propositions, such as: o Requests for sexual favors accompanied by implied or overt threats concerning the target’s job performance evaluation, a promotion or other job benefits or detriments; o Subtle or obvious pressure for unwelcome sexual activities. • Sexually oriented gestures, noises, remarks or jokes, or comments about a person’s sexuality or sexual experience, which create a hostile work environment. • Sex stereotyping occurs when conduct or personality traits are considered inappropriate simply because they may not conform to other people's ideas or perceptions about how individuals of a particular sex should act or look. • Sexual or discriminatory displays or publications anywhere in the workplace, such as: o Displaying pictures, posters, calendars, graffiti, objects, promotional material, reading materials or other materials that are sexually demeaning or pornographic. This includes such sexual displays on workplace computers or cell phones and sharing such displays while in the workplace. • Hostile actions taken against an individual because of that individual’s sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and the status of being transgender, such as: o Interfering with, destroying or damaging a person’s workstation, tools or equipment, or otherwise interfering with the individual’s ability to perform the job; o Sabotaging an individual’s work; o Bullying, yelling, name-calling.
What statistic or assertion is false, specifically? Happy to provide backup for any of them. And while it is just past noon here I haven't had anything to drink for a couple of weeks actually, thanks for your concern though. Just out of curiosity, what about my post made you suspect I was drunk besides the fact that you disagreed with me? I find it interesting that you choose to throw in a completely unsupported and unsupportable accusation like that in a thread where you're all complaining about completely unsupported and unsupportable accusations. A little projection going on here?
I like the sentiment. On the surface it looks very simple, and it probably is for those people who respect others and have some sensitivity. But reality have many shades of grey here: The office/christmas party where two drunk people end up together, one regretting the episode. That alone could be OK, a colleague finds out, rats out the couple so husband defend by saying he passed out. Someone says this is rape, etc. Could be rape too = grey zone. Laws differ from country to country. And even then, cultural norms and juries can always change opinions, or just dislike the person. Often, you are condemned not by Law, but by the administration or the masses. If by masses, bullying and death threats seems to suddenly be acceptable. If by administration, actions are always from the gut, with same short-term results over and over. The people who DON'T respect others, and wonder why some people never show respect for them. These insensitive people could trample on someone without knowing it, and they don't care until it knocks them back. The same bully then often drop crocodile tears and cry victim. They could've been bullied for years at home too. For some this is inseperable from their personality disorders, and a tolerant workplace should of course allow diversity! For some people, sharing mates or having many sexual encounters everywhere is just natural. Workplaces are not just for tender and shy people, or lowest common denominator. The list really goes on and on, and why simple rules and laws are never enough. There's always more to humanity, and often too little too. Each constraint say something about our tolerances. And in the midst of all this, freedom is valuable and good too! Most people are not bullies. Etc. We're living the paradox!