The thought crossed my mind that I should probably get the job and not worry about one weeks worth of work. Maybe thats what the employer was thinking too, but when I talked to him on the phone, I was a little perturbed by his mannerism. He thought that he should be the one who decides whats fair and not and then hung up on me. Personally I think temp to perm is a pretty good employment process for 'entry-level' positions-its get a chance for the employer to check out the candidate and the employee to check out the employer. And that's all this turned into, a temp to perm job. I still think its the professional thing to do, to be upfront about everything, especially any sort of payment. Even if they had simply said, no repayment, that would have been fine. I mean these guys are traders, they hopefully make enough to pay a few hundred bucks to a kid for a couple days work right?? Also I have 2 more interviews!! Killin em! 1 is with another recruiter (eh) but the other is a trading assistant for a broker-dealer. Will update.
Weak. Did they give you a verbal offer? Did they tell you what the offer is going to look like? Why did you call them? You did the right thing. Always ask questions - always be strong - always "interview" your prospective company - have a plan. The more desirable talent is the one that pushes back, qualifies, questions, and uses good judgement not to fall into a trap. Desperate people don't get hired. People who ask the right questions do. Employers want to hire strong, confident, saught after talent ... anyone desperate enough to work for a few days "to see if you fit in" can not have any of these traits (at the moment). What would they have asked if you were full time at Goldman Sachs? Not only what they asked of you was unfair, it violates employment law in most states. Also, any employed person taking them up on their offer would violate their employment agreement and their current employer (eg. Goldman Sachs) would most definitely terminate them if they found out they took vacation to "try out" a competitor for a few days. You are on the right track - keep interviewing, don't settle for something that seems "weird", "strange", etc... Your intuition is usually right - run away. Best of luck. Good thread.
Here's an idea maybe you haven't thought of: Engineering! Yeah everybody wants to be a HF billionaire, but how many get there? I've been in engineering for more than 20 years. I make $100K + bennies + 5 weeks paid + 401 matching + etc. In Aerospace. Have not been unemployed even once. *Should* I be making more? Maybe, but I managed to stay with non-supervisory (don't want to do management) and with automated stock trading from home, the sky's the limit. Gotta do what ya gotta do, but there is nothing wrong with engineering. You might not even have to go to India! Good luck.
i think you shouldn't put too much hope on the temp to perm thing. most firms hire temps because they want temps, they don't want a full time salaried employee. they get the temp to stay and work hard by misleading the person into thinking that it will lead into something. whenever a firm tells you to come in for a few days to work for any reason, they have to pay you. i can't imagine any legitimate company asking a candidate to come in and work for free for a few days. that's just ridiculous. you're not talking about one of those pro firms where you have to bring your own capital, are you?
temp to perm is certainly an option. it got me my first job, not at an elite firm, but as an equity research analyst at a large international firm. the temp position was actually back office accounting, but they sent out a list of jobs every few weeks for the entire company and since i had a great reference from the accounting department i temped in, it worked out well. you should be straight up with the division you temp with about what you want to do. also, i know someone who temped at Goldman Sachs. someone once in there, a coworker (full time) quit goldman for UBS, and later called the temp employee to see if she was interested in a job. 3 years later this person is making into the six figures in a non trading related job. FYI, they used Tuttle Agency to get the Goldman Temp job. but, i think you're position is a little stronger and you should wait for an offer for a permanant, at least for a while. the fact is, temp positions are garbage work, so it would only delay your real career. maybe pick up a couple interviewing books and reexamine the impression your leaving, seems like you're bombing them. also, check with the johns hopkins alumni list and try to contact people on WS and ask for information. IBs pay referral bonuses if hires work out, so alumni have an incentive to help you.
Thanks for the support everyone. I wrote an email to them basically stating that its in our best interests if I pursue other opportunities. They replied I was making a mistake....huh. I actually am an engineer by degree. Had a job as a project manager, which is less engineering, more admin and management. It was for a consumer goods company on the operations side. All of Ops includiing engineering was seen as more of a support role or 'necessary evil' for the sales/marketing folks. Not exactly inspiring or motivational. If I worked for a company in the engineering field, as opposed to consumer goods, perhaps things would be different but you go where life takes you. Speaking of pay and benis, engineers pay starts well but tops off very quickly. Some of my sales/marketing/econ friends started out around 30-40 but within a few years were near or at my pay. Consulting was even better, my good friend started equal pa, 4 weeks vacation (!!!!), 401K, beni's, Works 3-4 days onsite, the rest at home or wherever he feels like. He overtook my salary in a hurry. He does work very hard and a few weekends, also the travel schedule is gruelling. etc., etc. we could probably start a whole new thread regarding careers and pay....
any business, no matter which business, as long as it provides something in return for money, is all about sales and marketing. that's why all the people at the top are sales and marketing people. they are never the guys who actually do the work and build the product. of course there are rare exceptions, but those are just that, rare exceptions.
What engineering degree did you get at JHU? You graduated in 2003? I graduated from there in 2001...small world.
Met with another recrutier, it was actually the Tuttle Agency, they gave me some feedback on my resume which I thought I might share: My previous resume had a good portion devoted to my personal investing-strategies, excel work, and returns. I thought it would demonstrate my interest and knowledge of the markets. Their comment is that this may give an employer the wrong impression, they want your priority to be to the position and not your individual account. Another comment was to build up the financial apsect of my previous position, project manager. So I did up my resume per their discretion. I asked them if they had any individuals who had successfully transitioned from temp to FO trading. They said its obviously hard but it has been done before, they named two individuals. I have another interview on Tuesday for a broker-dealer here in the DC metro area for a trading assistant position. I'll update after the interview.
The posting for the job was a little misleading, the position seems more like back-office, reconciling trades. The company is an online broker, trading customer orders. Most trades are automatically executed through their proprietary software, the rest are sent to the exchanges. The job would be to track all the trades for errors and resolve them with traders. So basically a back-office position. One of the managers I interviewed with really opened up and thought that this position would be a good jumping off point to a trading position at a different company. They are trying to expand their product bases (currently stocks, mutual funds, ETF's) looking at Bonds, options, margin, which could be very interesting to work on. Also its a relatively new brokerage with the possibility of going public in a few years, everyone I spoke with had stock options and their fingers crossed! So all in all, back-office position with a small firm, potential to work on very important applications (intro of options, bonds, etc.) It's in DC metro which I don't mind but prefer NYC obviously. I could get the same job with a big I-bank in the city but that would probably be temp to perm type role. Opportunity there to do some networking though. Atmosphere and people at the DC firm was awesome, real nice people, friendly, open, relaxed environment, cute HR chick. They haven't made an offer or anything yet, probably won't be for a week or so but the interview went really well. Just a little on the ropes as to which direction to head. I definetly don't want to cut myself short and take anything, but then again, any experience is better then nothing right? Would love to hear people's thoughts?