Volatility Trade - countertrend

Discussion in 'Trading' started by misterkel, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Don't see how it would work - too many layers of separation. Volatility futures would have to push back through volatility (which is supposedly a derivative and marker of market movements, then that tail would have to wag the dog of the major indexes somehow?, which would push around the individual stocks. But since the process works in reverse of that, how could that happen?
    But I don't see any manipulation as tin foil hat - if they can make money doing it, then they will.
     
    #11     Nov 11, 2017
  2. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    Selling VX futures and forcing them down below their fair value will just bring buyers into the market for VX. It would be a gift for hedgers as they would be able to insure their holdings at cheap prices while their stocks were falling. If you ever see this happening, please let me know. :)
     
    #12     Nov 11, 2017
    sle likes this.
  3. sle

    sle

    Not true :) Imagine this. Markets tank and the realized volatility increases above the approved levels. As an emergency responce, The Powers (see below for the complete list) come up with an emergency plan to keep the peasants content. They sell VIX futures in size. The supply of Vega from the VIX markets filters into the variance strip. Dealers, who took down this vol have to hedge and and start buying equities, thus bringing realized volatility down.

    Of course, the amount of gamma the Powers sell would have to be a significant fraction of the total market volume. If the market volume is 6 trillion per day give or take, my estimate would be that they would have to start at 2 billion dollars of 1 month Vega equivalent.


    The Powers: The Fed, Illuminati, Elders of Zion, the Rothschilds and, of course, Dr. Evil.
     
    #13     Nov 11, 2017
  4. ajacobson

    ajacobson

    The manipulation is nicknamed "carpet bombing" in the SPX. Lot's of articles on the internet if you want to get a better understanding.

    The interesting thing is that volatility products are not covered by 13F reporting. So the listed product would only be known to the brokers and the depository trust companies.

    "The Powers: The Fed, Illuminati, Elders of Zion, the Rothschilds and, of course, Dr. Evil."
    Wow, unusual to see blame attributed without including the Hedge Fund community, Bilderbergs, Putin, Temasek and the GIC.
     
    #14     Nov 12, 2017
  5. Same here... I always look for these. Part of the problem is that, if you get too clever, you can never know with certainty if your concoction is actually long vol in a blowup scenario or it blows you up instead.
     
    #15     Nov 12, 2017
  6. tomorton

    tomorton


    You forgot Auric Goldfinger and Ernst Blofeld.
     
    #16     Nov 12, 2017

  7. that's precisely what i've done this particular year through vx future combo's. long vol front or second, short vol from middle to back..even in low index vix its been a great living..but u do have to be very active in the curve.

    i would not suggest that his fund under performed this year doing similar.
     
    #17     Nov 12, 2017
  8. Visaria

    Visaria

    I wanna short vix till it goes to zero
     
    #18     Nov 12, 2017
  9. sle

    sle

    I would imagine that the key difference is your actual cumulative volatility position. What do you think your net root time vega was in any of those spreads? My sense is that anyone who was long index vol this year, either outright or via any smart spreads did not fare well.
     
    #19     Nov 12, 2017
  10. Gambit

    Gambit

    This is probably a dumb/ignorant question but I'll ask anyway...have you looked at doing this trade with VXX instead? It seems there wouldn't be as much risk since all the months trade the same underlying.
     
    #20     Nov 12, 2017