Vol-trading for beginners

Discussion in 'Journals' started by destriero, Feb 14, 2021.

  1. contra

    contra

    Appreciate you doing this B. I can follow your journals somewhat, but a lot of it has been over my head to say the least. Hopefully this can help get me into trading vol finally.
     
    #11     Feb 14, 2021
  2. destriero

    destriero

    8) Strike + call - put = X (forward). There is no stock input in the equation. The result reflects rates/divs/carry. All vol is priced basis the synthetic and NOT the listed shares. A non issue in most liquid names. Intuitively, it makes sense. Listed shares have no time/synthetic vol-component (vol/synthetic time). This is how to price stock "futures."

    The vol-marks are based upon the forward price of the expiration you're pricing.

    In stupid/meme/HTB stock all conversions look expensive and all reversals look cheap if looking at the price of the listed shares. That's an indication that you don't have a handle on vol.

    The HTB fees are pro rata on size/holding period, etc. The synthetic is pricing market rates to expiration.
     
    #12     Feb 14, 2021
  3. ironchef

    ironchef

    Thank you, from someone lives by the sword, gambles on singles. :thumbsup:

    Timing
     
    #13     Feb 14, 2021
    zghorner and destriero like this.
  4. destriero

    destriero

    9) Synthetics.

    "Puts are calls... calls are puts"

    "What's the difference between calls and puts? Shares"


    "How can you short the calls if you haven't bought the puts!?" Pink Floyd

    Long put + stock = synthetic long call.

    We're not concerned with value here, just the mechanics. You've just "converted" a put into a call.

    Long call + short stock = synthetic long put.

    If you have the price of the call and you can short shares freely... you have the price of the put. Would you buy the put via the synthetic? No, but it all comes back to arbitrage constraints.

    Arbitrage.

    The vol-line on the 100-strike for APR is 33-mid. Someone is bullish and leaning on the puts, outright. You're an OTC MMer in vol and they come to you with an order of 5K up and you know the guy isn't a put buyer so you adjust your market to 30x32 and he hits your bid. You're long 5K puts at 30-line and you short the calls at 32.5 and buy 500k shares. You're in the conversion at a vol-edge of 2.5 handles. Your risk is opportunity at this point (rho--a massive change in rates).

    Tomorrow I'll post about split-strike relationships. Read about synthetics.
     
    #14     Feb 14, 2021
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  5. Overnight

    Overnight

    The bolded above is where it becomes a serious game of cat 'n mouse I reckon' How do you KNOW the guy on the other end is not a buyer of puts? It's as if you have to have the mind of a pit trader, to KNOW the guy on the other end of a potential trade. How can you have a feel for that in an all-electronic market?
     
    #15     Feb 14, 2021
  6. destriero

    destriero


    How do you think those guys were making 7-8 figures on the floor and blowing out upstairs? You can't (know). Hence my example was an OTC vox-transaction. There is more than one meaning to "know your customer."
     
    #16     Feb 14, 2021
  7. Overnight

    Overnight


    Indeed. Will go back to lurking the thread. I am loving it.

    P.S.

    ""How can you short the calls if you haven't bought the puts!?" Pink Floyd"

    Hehe. I dig it and get it. It helps in a small way. I won't muddy up the thread with a vid on it. Good pool.
     
    #17     Feb 14, 2021
    zghorner likes this.
  8. newbie463

    newbie463

    sell the meat..... buy the "pudding"????
     
    #18     Feb 14, 2021
  9. mukoh

    mukoh

    Hopefully another epic learning thread, thanks @destriero
     
    #19     Feb 14, 2021
    BlueWaterSailor likes this.
  10. .sigma

    .sigma

    interesting and makes me wonder why is IV ever even compared or measured in comparison to ambient vol, with IV having no relation to listed shares.
     
    #20     Feb 15, 2021