Virtual Risk Free Spread

Discussion in 'Options' started by jones247, Jan 28, 2008.

  1. Point taken faith... However, there are a few ways to manage the IV reduction. I could transact with 30 - 90 day expiration dates or I could choose to liquidate within 12 hours after the earnings report. Hopefully the underlying asset would have made a substantial move within this 12 hour window.

    Walt
     
    #11     Jan 29, 2008
  2. MTE

    MTE

    Just to add to what already has been said, if the stock expires at 35 then your butterly is at it's max loss, your call backspread is at it's max loss and your put backspread is at even/small loss depending on how much the debit/credit was. So overall you have a loss.

    Using mid prices as fills - total cost $40 (highly unlikely fill) your max loss at expiry is $290 @ 35 (with your cost of 65 the loss is 315). Upside b/e 37.90, downside 29.60.

    The position is slightly delta negative, gamma positive, theta negative and vega positive. So if vol drops you lose, which is certain to happen since Feb is 1800bp higher than Mar.

    Slippage is a major issue! You got 0.60 bid/ask spread on the fly, 0.35 on the call backspread and 0.45 on the put backspread.
     
    #12     Jan 29, 2008
  3. :confused: At expiry, it's breakeven from 30-35 so you're out cost. Your thingy looks kinda long stranglish to me. IMO - option comms are not immaterial. An eqivalent position could be done for less assuming that you could adjust size.
     
    #13     Jan 29, 2008
  4. MTE

    MTE

    I agree, just buy a 32.5/35 strangle and don't complicate things! Your cost is 2.35, so your b/e points are 30.15 and 37.35.
     
    #14     Jan 29, 2008
  5. Steve_IB

    Steve_IB Interactive Brokers

    Jones, You can view the profile in Risk Navigator in IB Similar to the attached
     
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    #15     Jan 29, 2008
  6. #16     Jan 29, 2008
  7. Jones assuming you have 12 hours. They could crush the vol much quicker. So that is where your risk is. Also as mentioned there are easier ways to get the same risk/reward profile by looking at straddles or strangles. Alot less legs to deal with.
     
    #17     Jan 29, 2008
  8. Good points MTE... in reality, what are the odds that it would expire exactly at $35. Every option method, sans reversals/conversions, will have some mathematical chance of a loss; however, I don't know of another method that allows a credit position or slightly debit position upon entry with such a HUGE probability (not merely possibility) for profit while limiting one's downside risk. Strangles or straddles may seem more reasonable, but the cost to enter such positions makes them less favorable than this system, especially since the potential and probability for profit is no better with a strangle or straddle as compared to this system... IMHO...

    Walt
     
    #18     Jan 29, 2008
  9. It's hard to argue against this point, gentlemen. Although I would be tempted to cover the cost of the strangle by selling ITM options against each strangle position at a 1:2 ratio. Of course, this then becomes a call backspread and a put backspread without the butterfly.

    Walt
     
    #19     Jan 29, 2008
  10. Thanks Steve...




    QUOTE]Quote from bigbiscuit:

    Heres the thread Maverick set up... Baird talks about something similar in his book Option Market Making

    http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24449&highlight=perfect+option
    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the thread reference bigbiscuit... If someone as experienced as Maverick advocates a system similar to the one I'm proposing in this thread and it's supported by Baird as well, then such votes of confidence provides a big boost for me. I started the thread, but it's soooo many pages... it'll take me a while to complete it, but I eager to comb through it completely.

    Walt
     
    #20     Jan 29, 2008