that isnt true. the 50k of personal funds was turned into 50 million prior to trading OPM. that is a monster return! surf
I knew he had to auction off his silver collection back in 98, when he blew up, did he manage to get buy it back later? anyone know
For what its worth - If he really turned 50g in 50 million - by trading his own money - I will revise my opinion and cheerfully state VN must have once been a very good trader or possessor of great market info. But absent proof - I am calling that complete bullshit. I do not remember him making any such claim in his book. He may have started trading with 50 k and then later managed 50 million. But, I find it strange that this is the first time I am seeing such a claim. However, like I said - if I were to see proof, I would revise my opinion of his trading skills. for now I base my opinion by what he wrote in his own book, and his results, which almost took down a prominent clearing firm from what I read.
It was an excellent article. Interesting to see the father through the daughters eyes. And from that, I would say he's a very lucky man. By the way, when I look at VN, I think of the old saying: "You're only as good as your last trade". This is a tough business. I respect those that have done well as VN has done. Even if it was followed by some failures. We've all had our tribulations. I wish him the best. OldTrader
If he did turn 50k into 50 mil then yes....it is a monster performance. But....this is the first time this has been mentioned, and if it was true I am sure that you would have brought this up in the past. This is the first time it was mentioned anywhere. Most likely his daughter is confused and meant to say "My dad started trading with a 50k account....and years later he was managing 50 mil." That is not the same as turning 50k into 50 mil by trading profit s only. He probably had nice returns and raised a lot more money which grew into 50 mil by a large influx of AUM. Nice try though Surf ........
theprophe wondered: "...I knew he had to auction off his silver collection back in 98, when he blew up, did he manage to get buy it back later? anyone know....." Yeah...that's true. When I shot him he told me all about how he dumped his entire silver collection...and most everything else he owned...to pay off as many debts and obligations he could, because he felt that's what he had to do...and that was what he felt was right. When he made his way back to profitability, he became more focused on American folk art. He said he had already 'done' the silver thing...the folk art was now his focus..... I've met a lotta guys in my career, but Victor is a unique individual..... BT
Is this what you mean?? http://www.dailyspeculations.com/vic/refco.html No matter how much detail I go into to show that Refco's association with my firm in 1997 was not a link in its debacle, someone, somewhere, is going to allude to some anonymous source saying something to the effect that Refco's problems started with losses they suffered with me in 1997. The latest was an Oct. 27 Bloomberg story saying that someone said that Refco suffered $35 million of losses relating to the settlements and agreements we came to in 1997. Not mentioned is the offset provided by the value of all the assets turned over to them by me and my funds. Worse yet, just having my name linked with Refco is enough for 99.9% of the public to think that there is some substance to the idea that unbeknownst to me they hid their losses with me, and that somehow this morphed into massive losses and debts that killed the firm eight years later. It's apparent that someone has been trying to deflect attention from true key links in the Refco debacle. The NYT reported today that before the acquisition of Refco by Thomas Lee & Co. in 2004, which valued the firm at $2.25 billion, Phil Bennett and Tone Grant, the previous Refco CEO, took out a total of $1 billion in cash bonuses, according to SEC filings. Bloomberg reported the same, and noted that an additional $862 million was paid out to an "a former shareholder" who went unnamed in the documents. It has also been reported that a Refco comptroller was granted a $50 million bonus in connection with his leaving the firm in October of 2004. This should provide a reasonable corpus of those likely to benefit from deflected attention. Regardless, if Refco in 2004 still had $2 billion or so in cash seven years after they last had contact with me, with which to pay out cash bonuses, as well as additional money to pay a $82 million special dividend in connection with the August 2005 public offering, any bookkeeping transactions that they may have wrongfully kept on their books relating to how they closed out their transactions with me in 1997 had to be de minimis. Yet even after this $2 billion payment, the firm was still valued by Lee at $2.3 billion and was sold to the public valuing it at $3.5 billion. Please, if they had a $4 billion or $5 billion value eight years after they last had contact with me, wouldn't it have been possible for them to write off, pay back or properly account for any losses or fictitious debts they still had on their books with me? Better yet, please someone expose me to losses and let me still have a firm where I can take out $2 billion in cash 8 years later, and still have a $3 billion value. That's it. I can't spend any more time responding to these damaging, nebulous and untrue rumors. -- Victor Niederhoffer Refco and Niederhoffer: The Real Story (Updated Oct. 25) Over the past several days, my name has surfaced in news stories blaming Refco's collapse in part to a debt that the firm is said to have incurred as the result of my losses in 1997, when Refco was my broker. Typical of these was the Oct. 21 Wall Street Journal article headlined: "Refco's Debts Started With Several Clients: Bennett Secretly Intervened to Assume Some Obligations; Return of Victor Niederhoffer," complete with a picture of me. The article said former Refco CEO Philip Bennett allegedly took steps to hide debts that Refco incurred with my firm and as many as nine other customers. "Niederhoffer and Flotti both denied owing Refco any money," the article said in the third paragraph. Yet not even the anonymous sources cited have stated that I owed Refco money. Talk about "when did you stop beating your wife?" journalism. "The people familiar with the matter say they believe the customers, including Mr. Niederhoffer, had no knowledge of the steps Mr. Bennett allegedly took to hide the debts," the Journal article said. The article makes it seem as though these debts played a major role in Refco's collapse. I believe this is highly unlikely and that it unfairly tarnishes me and my present firm, as I explain http://www.dailyspeculations.com/vic/refco.html