I like to butt into this just for a sec. I have read about dr.tharps and his coachings. I have no problem if he trades or not. Just that phychology per se does not work too well. It's a feel good thing and many (obviously) who can afford it use it and there is a market for you. I don't know about his techniques or methods etc. They may be great for all I know. I just think all phychology, Fruedian, Jung, Dr Ruth is all BS. It don't work !!! Look at all the crazy, deranged people all over the US !!!!! If phsychology worked 10% they say it does we would have 1/4 of loonies out there !!!!! (off my soapbox) and by the way I studied psychology and visited a few myself (hey I am in California) NLP on the other hand is a set of keys and methods you can use to overcome fear, anxiety, losing and bad trading. That's why shirinks hated Tony Robbins and called him a charlatan. He as a bit hyped up as "cure for all" also should be taken lightly and with a "grain of salt", but it works better than any textbook shink mumbo jumbo !!!!!
andrasnm Actually my father and me agree with you about psychology. He took psychology to the top and got a PHD. He will be one of the first to admit what he learned in school doesn't work for the majority of people. He later got into other techniques such as NLP which have a dramatic difference. NLP and some of the other techniques are on a whole different area. Things of this nature work. Now reading a book with by Tony Robbins won't get you over your issues. YOU MUST SIT DOWN WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS EXPERIENCES WITH CLEARING>, I will usually spend 10 minutes to 2 hrs to rid myself of an issue. The issue will be gone and no longer affect me. The changes that occur are huge afterwards not just feel good. Whereas with psychology you can sit on a couch and spend 10 years talking about your problems to rid yourself of an issue. 2hrs or 10 years??? hmmm I'll give you an example of my first clearing session. I used to not be able to speak to many people. I was extremely quiet throughout my life till about 4 years ago when I did my first session. What I discovered was a decision I made when I was 8 years old. I used to have a huge overbite on my front teeth. It wouldn't allow my lips to close properly. I got braces to fix this and it is no longer a problem. The problem was while the braces were on I had to retrain the muscles in my lips to close when speaking. My mother is a preschool teacher but she is also a speech therapist. She used to correct my sentences non stop. The was a time when she corrected me 12 times in one of my sentences. I blew up at her for this. The reaction I got from her , the anger, punishment was severe. I made an unconscious decision to never speak right then and there unless it is really important. From that day on I wouldnt' talk to you if you were a stranger. If someone asked me an opened ended questions I would answer yes, no , ok or I don't know. Such as my father asking me how was school today. my answer ok..... his next question what did you do at school? my answer I don't remember.. and so on and so on. When I had this realization about this subconscious thought I couldn't shut up. Have I changed. Well notice how much I post. I can't stop talking at times now especially if I'm passionate about it such as trading, surfing. I'm a member of Toastmasters --a public speaking club. I've spoken for DaytradersUSA in front over 80 people for 2 hrs and have been told I'm one of their highest reguarded speakers. Yes NLP, clearing works. psychology does not rtharp
I read both of Mr. Tharps books and found them interesting. I just purchased the Peak Performance Course last week but have not had the time to start the course. I briefly skimmed over the materials and I think it's a repeat of the books except that there is much more detail. If you are a newbie, I would recommend this course. I think the course is not worth it for good traders who already understand Position Sizing and Trading Psychology.
"Now reading a book with by Tony Robbins won't get you over your issues. YOU MUST SIT DOWN WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS EXPERIENCES WITH CLEARING>, I will usually spend 10 minutes to 2 hrs to rid myself of an issue. The issue will be gone and no longer affect me. The changes that occur are huge afterwards not just feel good." I have never heard of the expression "clearing". I took a Robbins seminar (whole week-end) a while back and read/listened his stuff ever since. Simply reading a book will give you ideas and proof of a system that can work if you try. I never thought otherwise. I was not aware that others are also into NLP and I guess the PHD is phsycholgy was the major missunderstanding. There are lot of coaches for traders and I don't all know what their systems is all about. Robbins personally coaches for big shots(including big traders) going awry - but how good he is doing NOW I have no clue. I know one thingsome time ago a person spent 50k in about ten years on lot's of Robbins stuff and he got it back in 1000+ fold later. Now this is brass balls or very stupid move turned lucky.
Regatding the risk free guarantee of purchases. MY personal experierience is that the only times I have ever been "screwed" trying to obtain a refund for an unsatisfasctory purchase is when the guarantee period has been greater than 60 days and not subject to credit card dispute rules. I say this not intended against Van Tharp personally but a much more effective guarantee would be not to charge my credit credit for a year or until I am convinced the material I bought is worthwhile. I have spent thousands to obtain the several "jewels" that make all my lousy purchases worth it. Just an opinion of a trader who has made numerous wrong turns o the road to limited success in trading.
rtharp, Thanks for sharing such an intimate story. What makes NLP extraordinary is that you didn't have to have remembered what led to your block. (In this case you did but it wasn't necessary) Just wanted to point that out because many conventional psychologists concentrate on taking people back to their childhood so that they can remember what exactly caused them to do this or that. That is not helpful at all. You are the way you are. What people are interested in is lasting positive change. NLP delivers without needing to know what the underlying 'problem'. Actually a good NLP practitioner can help you without you having to divulge to him/her what behaviour you want changed!
The problem with psychologists is that psychology was learned by studying hundreds of people who have problems. As an example someone who has a fear of snakes. They found 3000 people who all had the same problem and learned a lot about people who had a fear of snakes. Meanwhile NLP and found 30 people who had a fear of snakes but had found a way of overcoming that fear. They modeled how they overcame the fear and soon taught it to others. Clearing is a technique that is similiar to NLP. It has an everlasting change usually in a few minutes. There are benefits but it has to be with someone who knows what they are doing. Results should be able to have a lasting impression and change someones behavior forever in a positive way. andrasnm if you are wondering about the clearing check out this website. www.dynamism.org Rtharp
I'll agree with you MJT but what they do works I try to have an open mind. I recently went to the seminars given by this group and they had a incredible impact on me. Might interest some of you. http://www.thelegacycenter.com/ rtharp
Hey rtharp I know you. I was reading this post b/c I do not think I will able to trade in the morning b/c I was having more DRAM installed in my order-entry computer and static must have destroyed the motherboard. This post is part comment and part question for Rtharp. Background. I played tennis in college and played some circuits after college. I wanted to win so much I would have to admit I was a choke. (I choked more than most when I got nervous.) When I started daytrading full time (while working after the market close). I spent thousands of hours reading books and looking at charts. I basically, managed to make a little bit less than my costs at Bright. (This is no put down of Bright, they treated me well). After another 9 mos of making a little bit of money at another office. I finally paid some guys to train me. I started to make good money the first day I was working with these guys. (At this point in time I knew how to trade I just hadn't seen professionals making solid trades.) Nevertheless, how did I know I could quit my other job and trade for a living? I didn't know; untill I read Van Tharp's book. Afer reading that book I never have to worry about being a choke. I do not have to worry that I might lose my touch. I do not have to worry about all the myraid things traders worry about. I love trading and I know why I will be able to do it the rest of my life. Had I not read that book I may have slowly developed these same ideas; as they have recently shown up in other peoples literature, but I must say Van's book is a treasure for traders who want to be successful. It is the best book on trading book. By the way I too like DiNapoli's book, it is great for people who already know how to make money. I have similar comments about Miners book although it may be of more use for a beginner. Now for my question Robert, you have told me I should consider clearing, I have told you I do not know why I would need to be cleared. After reading the above links - I finally see what clearing may be. However, I see these disciplines as just substituting for Judeo/Christian religion. I see these concepts as the same concepts that tempted Eve in the bible. It is just a question of whether you, the individual, want to be the focus of your mind and soul or you want God to be the focus of your spirit, mind and soul. ( I know this statement reveals my position on the issue but I can not reword it.) Being cleared seems to bare a remarkable outward similarity to being born again. ( I am not trying to denigrate either of these experiences I am just trying to understand why people choose to go eastern instead of western) My question is this Robert, could you compare and contrast the benefits of clearing and these "eastern"s disciplines to "western" religion. By the way we can post on another thread if you desire. If I were to see a benefit in clearing that does not conflict with my beliefs I might take your advice but first I need to know what clear is. By the way I am all for improving my trading and if you want to share ideas let me know . I do agree with your concepts about teaching and I am planning to be more open. John