My sentiments on Van Tharp's work are closely aligned with that of Babak. All I will add is that had it not been for Van Tharp's work, I would have possibly blown my account up by now. I started a few years ago with around $20k... my first year was tough, and I was surviving on a McDonald's inflow of trading income. I was finding it difficult to break through my initial capital base in any significant way. Had it not been for Van Tharp's work, my account would not have accelerated in a relatively consistent way. At the height of the bull markt, I regularly had $10k days (a $10k day sort of pales into insignificance a handful of dollars spent on improving one's education Sterling, eh?) I may not have survived to reap the benefits of the bullmarket had it not been for Van Tharp's techniques on money management/position sizing. The current Trading Conditions (for my thread on trading conditions and general trading issues, please refer to: www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=2041 ), have been very tough, and without a sound money management education, it would have been all too easy to have been burnt. On final note, I would agree with Sterling that Van Tharp is not the only source of knowledge on money management and other techniques. Others may, as Sterling points out, even be free of charge. It is the decision of individual trader to decide whether he wants free information or wants to pay for it. All I can say is that Van Tharp's work has been extremely beneficial for MY bank balance, MY trading results and MY lifestyle. Enough said.
Yes, they are two separate things, but in the trading business, NOBODY can do both. If he is good at trading, why waste time teaching?
What makes 5 learning manuals consisting of: Vol 1 How to use risk Vol 2 How to control stress Vol 3 How to control Losing Attitudes Vol 4 How to develop Discipline Vol 5 How to make sound decisions Worth 600 dollars? SIX HUNDRED BUCKS!!!!....unbelievable
Babak: âThis is a catch phrase that has got to go. Some can do both, others only one. â Gotta go with Babak on this one. Dozu888: âIf he is good at trading, why waste time teaching?â I think there are a number of reasons why someone who trades would also want to teach. For some people teaching fills emotion needs, such as ego gratification or the need to be recognized, the pleasure one feels when you can help someone as you would have liked to have been helped, the feeling of contact that sitting alone in front of a screen does not provide (unless you surf some unmentionable sites :eek: ), and to fill their wallets. The question: âIf you are good at trading, why waste time posting on this site?â could be posed to some of the traders here. I personally come to this forum to meet some of the needs previously mentioned, as well as to learn. I try to check my ego at the door. I also understand Sterlingâs indignation at the expense of some courses. I think there are many in this industry that prey on ignorance and my impression is that they impart very little for the fees that they charge. It seems like everybody wants to sell you on how its done. Even if the teacher does not actively trade, Iâm not sure that necessarily invalidates the contribution. Certainly, someone with little or no experience is suspect, but as far as psychology goes, I think books about sports psychology are excellent and the authors know nothing of trading. IMHO, every concept should stand alone to be evaluated on its application or adaptability to your personal methodology. I have virtually no experience with most of the sources that are discussed on this site so Iâve got nuttinâ specific to say about dat.
Why does someone teach and not trade Well first Dr. Tharp said he didn't trade in Market Wizards. That was over 15 years ago. Look at the date it was published, not too long after he started to trade a longer term system as it would be impossible to trade short term and help others. Making 40-50% a year though with only a few hours a week isn't too bad?? Now I also trade and I'm also teaching. Why? Well for one. I have a belief that by helping others it comes back to me 10 fold. I live my life by this and so far I have a lot of evidence to back up my belief. When I teach someone something I do I find that I understand it in a deeper level. I also subject myself open to flaws by having a huge audience hear what I'm doing. By finding these flaws my trading goes up ten fold yet again. dozu88 and Sterling think about your belief. That course works on your beliefs. You guys have one that says good traders won't teach. Well then how is somebody going to learn??? Sterling you talked about how everything in the course is availalble on the internet. Well it's not. All you then talked about was money management, when that course deals with psychology. Why are you commenting on something you have never done? It shows this in your posts. The thing I find rather interesting is the course is actually offered risk free. as stated on the website. http://www.iitm.com/course/peak_performance_crse.htm Our guarantee is better than risk-free! You cannot find a better guarantee in the industry than this â a full year of using the course and we guarantee that youâll be delighted with your new profits and with the changes youâve made in your life. We can offer this sort of guarantee because we know from past experience that youâll be delighted with the results. In fact, Dr. Tharp doesnât believe he deserves to keep your money unless you are absolutely delighted. All we ask is that you fully document that youâve really applied the lessons in the course. What could be fairer? Thus, your choice to purchase Dr. Tharpâs Peak Performance Course is totally risk free to you. In fact, itâs better than risk free for you. No matter what you do with the course, the bonuses are yours to keepâthatâs over $1,000 in bonusesâall absolutely free. And, if youâre already getting the newsletter, then weâll extend your subscription by six issues. Thus, our offer to you is better than risk free. Hereâs how our full risk-reversal guarantee works. When you order the Peak Performance Course, take the next twelve months to study the course material and put it into practice. Do all the exercises and really get to know yourself. Develop a sound, written business plan for your investments and apply Dr. Tharpâs 10-task model. Also, keep a trading journal as Dr. Tharp describes in the course. Once youâve done all of that, we know youâll be delighted with the results â both in your market returns and in your personal life. If after doing all of this, you havenât increased your returns from the market by 35% to 1,000% or youâre not delighted in every way, at the end of the one year trial, send the course back, along with your trading journal, business plan, and documentation showing that you have applied the course material. Weâll refund your purchase price of the course in full (excluding shipping charges). But thatâs not the only guarantee we offer. When you order the home study course you will have the first 30 days to review the course to determine if it is right for you. If not, you can return the course in re-sellable condition within the first 30 days for a full refund (minus shipping costs). There are 2 guarantees as my father stands in what he does. He doesn't want to sell to someone he can't help. Rtharp
Get the book. For me, it was well worth the money...about the course, I can't say..you'll have to ask someone who had been to one. However, by using Tharp's techniques, my profitable trades have become more profitable and my unprofitable trades have become less unprofitable. Or, to put it another way, his techniques have put my trading in the black and for thirty dollars or so, that is an incredible ROI! Best regards and good luck! Jim
I like saying somting about good teacher and good trader. I take Tony Oz seminar this weekend in Otemachi Tokyo Japan and seminar very very good. Tony Oz make trading his account friday night and make more then 10,500 dollars US in his real tik 3 account. He using scanning and money manegement to make money in stock market. After seminar. We go Tony for dinner tonight in shinjuku. He stay with us more then 4 hour. He very nice men. Good teacher and good trader. I sorry my english not so good. Hayashi
First I want to thank EVERYONE who has responded to this thread. I appreciate the time and the conflicting opinions. As my handle implies, I am a newbie although I have traded accounts in the past bull market without much knowledge. I know that I love the financial markets and that a great deal of knowledge is beneficial. I have so far to go! However, I also believe that you can over-analyze and that trading psychology and position sizing is INVALUABLE in survival while starting out and thriving LT as a trader. I embrace the current "difficult trading conditions" as an IDEAL time to learn. Six hundred dollars is much more than I have-like I said I am a recent grad and have Student loans, however, there is only one career/love out there for me and that is trading. I am willing to do whatever it takes to survive and survive(for now) and that is why I wanted opinions on the PEak performance course as in the big picture $600 is not debilitating. I will likely hold off for a few months ,but I am very interested in the course. Van Tharp has obviously done a lot of research of traders and I am interested in his NLP applications of modelling successful ones. If anyone could elaborate (RTHARP?) on where I could find published papers or research data he has used I would llove to study it. I want to wholehartedly embrace being a trader and do everything in my power to learn from others. That is why I am more of a "lurker"/ occasional poster as right now I am just taking everything in. I have learned so much over the last month and eventually I hope to be a very regular poster. Currently, I am studying for my "seven" in hopes that this will help lure a backing through a proprietary trading co. or an eventual backing/sponsorship by someone who has confidence in me. Well, I will end this for now, just a little background and thanks!
Hi All To put it more succinctly. Van Tharp blew his minimal knowledge about trading in his first two books. To go further is a waste of your money and your time. sterling
Exactly. This is a pet peave of mine. I dispise most trading "vendors" because so much of what is out there is completely worthless. I know because I've tried much of it. I think it is a type of initiation for new traders as they search for the "holy grail". I was no different from anyone else. I thought there was some magic combination of indicators that led to fame and fortune. As I found out, thousands of dollars later, there isn't anything like that. For this, I think people who claim to give you the secret for only $199, $499, $999, $2999, or whatever, should be tarred and feathered. Now with regards to Dr. Tharp. It was his work that made me finally realize that profitablility does not come from any specific method, but rather from proper risk control and position sizing. As many others here have stated, this was the most original trading concept I had ever encountered. I couldn't believe all of these other trading "gurus" never mentioned it. (The only other seminar seller I had run across to cover this was Larry Williams. That is where I learned about risk of ruin and probability theory applied to trading.) It was this lack of focus on money management from many others that made me finally realize that most never trade, or tried and failed so they started selling stuff. So I don't think Sterling is off base, but I personally have found Tharp's stuff worth much more than the money (although I have not taken the course, just the books). I used to think that every trading vendor that didn't trade for themselves was a crook trying to prey on the naiivity of newbies. I now only think that most of these people are crooks. I don't hold this belief for Dr. Tharp. As with any endeavor, buyer beware. Unfortunately, it is often too late before the new trader realizes this. That, imo, is the true value of a forum such as this. Newgradtrader, be careful with anything out there that seems too good to be true. But as you can see from the replies from many of the traders I've come to respect on this board, Tharp can help you on the long journey ahead. I recommend you at least get his books. Good trading, Kirk