Bryan Roberts, I was responding to a fellow firm owner of Van Buren, Vito Sisto who runs a well known & successful trading firm. The Tough Environment I was talking about has alot to do with both our business models for running a firm in a tough trading environment. We may charge more than some firms, but we give rock solid service. Traders want the best hardware, support clearing,software etc. , but also want rock bottom rates . To maintain a trading & clearing infrastructure costs money. Many firms with "rock bottom" rates in the NYC area(for example) can't possibly maintain top notch customer service and infrastructure with their rate schedule. One firm in particular(not actively posted on Elite),will give extremely low rates, promise the world and not deliver half of what they say.The old saying is very true in trading & brokerage, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't. The tough environment for traders has to do the .01 spreads and a bear market with no direction, no momentum. The markets are acting better the last few days and maybe we will get the public and the online investor back in the stocks. Gene Weissman Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C. gweissman@stocktrade.net
In response to the original thread, you can call me at the number below and I would be happy to get you any information that you need. Thanks.
Are you making excuses for poor trading and implying that the markets will return to the way they were 2-3 years ago? If you are, good luck waiting. That was a once in a lifetime market. Now is the market for seperating the traders who deserve to be called traders from the hackers who thought buying momentum was all there is to trading. At my old firm (ETG) they provided great service at a price. I couldn't decide if I could afford their rates or I couldn't afford to not have their service. I don't know what you fellows in NY are drinking, but I would be thankful for these markets if they stayed this way. It can get worse. Much worse. Excuses are for losers.
Newatthis, The current market is extremely challenging to all traders, even top pros. There is no momentum in a bear market,.01 Bid-ask spreads , dual listing of all stocks and options by ECN's and otherexchanges. For the pro, there is no EDGE. Trading is about risk vs reward. If you used to make 1/8 on 1000 shares when you were right $125 , then you made 62.50 (1/16), now you make .01 or $10.00! Many market making firms are going to have to leave the business. As a trader not a market maker, I am going to have to try to trade more stock at a lower comm. rate just to break even. We have traders that are still making a living, but they are working much harder and earning less. Market conditions are always changing and we have to adjust our trading to market conditions. I am sure in the long run market conditions will improve. I'm sure my old friend Bob kantor feels the same way. Gene Weissman Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C. gweissman@stocktrade.net
Gene, Thx for your posts - I always learn something. I have no idea how you can keep your patience with someone with a handle like "Newatthis" - you have probably been in this business longer than he has been alive, have seen dozens if not hundred of traders making a living from the markets, and don't know what the meaning of the word "looser" without having to look it up in the Dictionary. Best regards, nitro
Let me "echo" nitro's comments....GREAT POST. I am always impressed by integrity and honesty. i believe your market assessment is right on the money. i am glad to see i am in good company, i too have been chastised by Newatthis!!!!! if wanting to know what market dynamics are in play make's me a loser then so be it. thanks for responding to my earlier post!
Nitro, "looser" means not as tight. I think you might mean "loser" as in not a winner. I'm just ribbing you, but I see loser and looser mixed up all the time (typo maybe) on this board. I am with NewAtThis to a point though. I like .01 spreads, multiple listings, and market transparency. I think the challenge is adapting. I worry that if the markets go back to the way they were, I might not make as much money - I don't trade momentum or scalp much. Time will tell I guess.
Thanks for the kind words. I try to be honest in my posts and I talk from 20 years experience. There are some traders who like the .01 spreads for their trading(some NYSE specialists for example), but not many. I think 2001 & the beginning of 2002 is a challenging environment for any trader. I always welcome any comments from anyone who agrees or disagrees with my opinions. If anyone is in NYC, I will be at the online expo all day tomorrow. It was good seeing many fellow traders there today. Everyone have a well deserved day off tomorrow. Gene Weissman Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C. gweissman@stocktrade.net
I beg to differ with your response. (First, yes, I spoke in hyperbole for affect. That is what this board is all about. Hearing all sides of opinion.) BUt, my point had nothing to do with Market Makers. Let 'em go out of business. My point was this: Too many people entered this business who never learned how to trade. That is they thought buying momentum or earning the dealer spread was the way to trade. You know from your years of experience that adapting to any market is the key to success. HOWEVER, the real key to success and what all the complainers seem to be missing is that the way to make money trading is to be right about direction regardless of spreads and momentum. A trader can sit hear and talk about the good old days of momentum or trading for eights, but the bottom line is they need to discover a way to make money in any market or they will be out of business faster than they attack my opinions on this board. (Right Bryan?) If a trader is correct on the direction of the next move in a stock, then it does not matter if there is trading in teenies or pennies. The stock will go to where it is going. My old boss Bob Kanter would agree by the way. I will agree that this market is harder than a few years ago, but traders should quit making excuses. As I said in my last post, excuses are for losers. I stand by that.