10-11-03 06:52 PM Re: What is it that is smaller? Hi Jack. I just got back and see that i missed a lot of action. I Just wanted too say that i really appreciate this post. It is definite a keeper. I really like how you used the picture of a table with 2 lines and each line broken down into groups with placards. I have put ++++ too questions and comments i have. see the color below. you have some stuff right and some stuff wrong -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from Grob109: But I just look at it as a table with two lines. In detail the bid is on the left. All these people want to buy. The people who want to sell are on the right. They come to the table as their group prices are nearest to each other. Think of the groups as having a placard with their price on the placard. you are looking at placards and you discovered tat the placards on the left side are lower than the placards on the right side. It is that way every day. What I am looking at is the size of the groups. At the front of the two lines one groups is smaller than the other. To make it interesting I will say the ask group at the front is smaller. As the matching goes on between the askers and the bidders, the askers get used up sooner. That is because they are a SMALLER group. Over the years I have noticed that at any given time, most of the groups with their different placards in one line are smaller groups that the bunches on the other side. ++++this is really great. We want too focus on which side's placard groups are smaller. Correct +++++ We want too be long if the smaller placard groups are on the left side (bidding) and short if the smaller placard groups are on the right side(offers). No the opposite This is correct: We want too be SHORT if the placard smaller groups are on the left side (bidding) and LONG if the placard smaller groups are on the right side(offers). IF when the smaller group is the ask groupEach time an ask group is used up the market rises. Correct, with my prologue added. this is tough stuff With smaller groups on one side the market keeps going that way. Correct ++++I have a question regarding if the smaller placard groups are on the left(minority is bidders) but the current placard at the front of the left line is bigger in size than the placard that is at the front of the line on the right side. So what i am saying is the the groups on a whole are smaller on the bid side but the best bid placard group(front of the line) is larger in contract size than the best offer placard. Does this mean that we are shifting from accumulation too distribution because the current ask is smaller in size than the bid size even though the placard groups as a whole are smaller on the bid? Keep it simple. Only the front groups matter. what you wrote is going to cause you to reverse after one froup passes. You will start long(ask is smaller) then reverse short the bid groups are smaller from that point on). Keep it simple. Could you also maybe go into detail how the placard grops act during times of transition between A/D? It goes from small/large to medium/medium to large/small. for me to continually make money I look at group sizes. Groups sizes are measured in contracts. They are not measured in points. Placards are used for that and I do not think of what placard I want to be associated with. I want to be associated with the line that has the smaller groups. ++++this picture of being associated with the line with the smaller placards is very important. All the placards are the same size and so are the poles that they are stapled too. The same size stples are used too. Lettering is all the same size. The people are different heights usually. type slowly read what you type Thinking is required at all times. But it is not thinking things up; it is thinking through stuff, thinking. This is tough What is even cooler is that you don't care what placard you are associated with. You just care what side of placards you want too be in(smaller line). Thats a GREAT picture too have. the placards are printed on both sides, so you are corect you can stand on either side; BUT be sure you are in the proper line!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This stuff is really fascinating. The problem i have is how too efficiently use this in conjunction with SCT. I am under the assumption that A/D shifts every 3 too 6 minutes. YES Does this mean that we should be taking reversal trades every 3 too 6 minutes YES or are we just using the A/D for certain times in conjunction with SCT like during IF 2 times. THEY WORK TOGETHER At some pt, i would like too be able too reverse every 3 to 6 minutes according too A/D too make as much money as possible. I feel like there is a lot of steps between SCT where you only use it during IF 2 times and the level when you are just reversing every 3 too 6 minutes getting every tick out of the market. SURPRISE!!!!!! THEY WORK TOGETHER Could you go into more depth of which times you actually reverse when you see the A/D switch compared too SCT where you are not doing every reverse when A/D actually switches but holding for the trends. I AM DOING BOTH ALL THE TIME; YOU WILL BEGIN TO HEAR BOTH SOON I might ahe done an extremely bad job of explaining my questions. This could be indicative of my understanding as this is new too me. I HAVE THE SAME PICTURE. YOU WILL STOP DOING THIS SOON> MAKING MONEY STOPS PEOPLE FROM FRETTING> ME to you: when you are doing this with 10 contracts after pulling down 4500 a day with one contract; you will notice you are wearing designer jeans and good sneakers and nice shirts. You will have a different non-fretting altitude. Thanks. Jc This was a hard post to process. You do not need to use the word placard once you get it. I used placard to get you to see the difference between price and group size. Groups have their placards at all times but they do not like to be called placard groups. The placard bearer is especially sensitive to this. I have seen them poke people who call groups placard groups. If you gert poked with a placard pole by a big bearer, you are going to really regret it.
I am going to have to hit you on the nose with my rubber microphone here? Read grob's posts, carefully! His famous results were done on a DEMO which looped OLD data and allowed the trader to always enter/exit on the bid/offer. Its a snap to trade when you know when the turns are coming and when you can always get out at a good price and when no real money is at stake.
lol jack. I really appreciate your last post. looks like i have too really study up and change the wrong pictures. Thanks again for being so patient. Now its time too look at past T&S. jc
The last batch http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=347838 were in real time. Attached is a 1min chart of the trades (from 13:00 on). Yellow lines are high and low of previous 5min bar. Regards, Laziz
Yup. If they were demo, the times would be waaaay off, as previously discussed in this thread. These are a perfect match. Regards, Laz
Well, like any good system, dilution can affect results. If you look at the volume in the es, there are plenty of times where bid and ask show hundreds of contracts, but most of them are cancelled, because T&S show price moving through with less than 100, sometime less than 20 contracts changing hands. So many cancelled orders! Now, if Grob is training 100 traders to do this with 10 lots, and increasing in size due to $4500 per contract per day, how long before the competition begins as to who can click first. Fastest finger wins. (And your mom told you those video game skills would never come in handy - lol.) Later you will have to make sure your TWS is lined up purely with market orders, (not limit orders of buying the ask - we have all had the experience of trying to buy the ask and being too slow.) It is because of this you see those 20 second spikes of 3 to 6 ticks that seem so common on ES these days, especially during low volume times of the day. So if you want to avoid this, you will eventually have to use Grob's method as AMT4SWA suggests (and I as I alluded to in an earlier post.) Go look at the volume in every market traded electronically. While b\a make it look like there is sufficient volume to support multiple traders trading this way, actual records of T&S show this method to be easily diluted. If you have watched the tick on various markets, you can tell there are a number of traders trading this way now. Are these traders making money? undoubtedly. But not all of them. Only the ones with an intuitive sense to avoid whipsaw in areas of congestion. (There is obviously sufficient volume on open and close, usually in areas of congestion, but this is where trading purely from this method will lead to the most whipsaw.) Grob, thanks, but you've already said too much. It's time for this thread to die. Grob, unless volume increases exponentially, your altruistic desire to help others will ultimately lead to the demise of this trading method due to dilution. I bet my "Space Invaders" score was better than yours - race you to the fill.
You're not keeping up. Your opinion on the demo is how you do demos. We get what you do to enjoy doing demos long and with enogh repeats that you view them as you do. I cannot confirm what you say is fact though and while it is important to you, it must be important to people like you of which I am not one. I did the demo once to get IB set up. That is a pocess mostly anyone would do after completeing the tutorial. The first day I worked in real time with real money is posted as well. It shows a 6 point gain in a midday range of 2 and 1/2 points for a first time use of TWS. That is 2.4 times the H/L of the period. I followed up with a trading description.
Jack, can you just cut the crap and answer simple questions being asked with simple answers? The thread went on for X many pages and people are still guessing whether you would hit the bid or the offer and under what circumstances. Come on!!!!! Let's try this again. Work with me Jack. BEST BID SIZE = 1000 ; BEST ASK SIZE = 200; Now to the super question... would Jack hit the bid (go short) or hit the ask (go long) here? Possible answers for Jack: a) hit the bid b) hit the offer. Just a or b Jack please, no extra crap.