and you are making my point... so of the 100 million i said 40 to 60 million were Christians. let's go with the low number.. do you deny that at minimum 40 million Christians died? i'm thinking you don't disagree with this part. so... bottomline you are just upset that i used the term genocide? and since the clinton law uses the term Holocaust.. you don't mind that either... even though the racist 'a_person' lost a gasket over it?
That means your "christian genocide" was actually targetted against 60 to 40 million people who were not christian, including atheist. So those 100 million people were not exterminated because they were christian. Your claim invalidates itself. You tosser.
100 million is worldwide, not in Russia, and inflated at that. Based on my research, and the source I posted, even 40 million is a considerable overestimate of the number of Christians who died at the hands of Communists in Russia. However, I have no desire to minimize their suffering; in any case, whatever the number, it is horrifying. The key issue is motive, and the word genocide. You can't pretend this is a surprise. I've noted 5 times in the last 5 tiresome days that it's not genocide unless you have killings specifically targeted at Christians. This isn't just a matter of your choice of words. The original context from which this discussion arose was Jews and their fear of anti-Semitism. I mentioned that Jews had an obvious reason to fear anti-Semitism because, in living memory, a significant proportion of world Jewry was exterminated, specifically and only because they were Jews. Thankfully, the same is not true for Christians. Whether Jews' fear of anti-Semitism is rational or not, at least it is founded in historical fact. Christians do not have a commensurate reason to fear for their lives. That was when you came up with this charade about a genocide of 40-60 million Russian Christians. If those people died for reasons that had nothing to do with their specific religion, then why would you bring it up in that context? Ratboy, I've never seen someone play out such a weak hand for so long. Why don't you just fold? This is wasting all of our time. Martin
sparrowboy i am glad you admitted to the deaths of millions of christians and you find it horrifying as i do the innocent Jews in Germany. we are on the same page there.... sorry i was sidetracked with a_person and her extreme bigoted hatred. as we learned, Clinton signed a bill into Law memorializing the communists holocaust. i still am furious with her "real holocaust" statement, i appreciate you not siding with her. so your main concern is the use of the word genocide when referring to the Christian deaths. i came across information last night that stated 200,000 clergy were murdered because of their beliefs. it would be hard to pin their deaths on 'class struggle' now wouldn't it? but there is much research ahead of us. this pandora's box will take time.
Just let ratboy be the only person on the planet who refers to communist repressions as "Christian Genocide" or "Christian Holocaust" if he so desires. He already has a well-deserved reputation as a clown and conspiracy nut, this thread simply reconfirms and enhances it and completely destroys his [non-existent] credibility.
No, I haven't called anyone a "whitewashed" tomb in 2000 years. I am shedding light on ratboy's concealed base of beliefs, from which he is lobbing indiscriminate non-sense aimed at destroying the credibility of the truth. Leading a garrison of guilt, we shall see if he is part of the solution, or...part of the problem. Coaxing him to give up his position, however, may be like asking Dick Cheney what really happened on 9/11. Jesus
sorry, but what you refer to as your balanced open mindedness seems vaguely similar to the hippies. everything was ok.... free love, free sex, free drug use. what happened to them? sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... sometimes a bush lie is just a lie. sometimes lies lead to millions dying for no reason. carl jung referred to each patient as unique and therefore the strategy for treatment should also be unique. each topic or issue is unique and requires a different M.O. when analyzing. if i seem emotional when lies are told that result in little innocent babies being burned alive or having their limbs ripped off their bodies... then i am guilty as charged. when my first amendment or second amendment rights are in jeopardy... i admit i get a little passionate. when drug companies keep putting mercury in vaccines and lie about ... well you see where i am going with this. maybe i should be grateful for the hyper spike in autism cases... but i guess i am not as smart, popular and trendy as you are. i am 'leave it to beaver' old fashioned. a cornball of sorts. no rearden.. i am not an open minded progressive... no... you caught me.
by all means ask away. i didn't realize ramtha had set her sites on me. fyi, i have moomoo on ignore.. so i have no idea what she has been saying other than what people quote. the floor is all yours JZ!
Actually class struggle is exactly what it was. The Bolsheviks saw the clergy and the rabbinate as members of the bourgeoisie, preying on the working class ("opiate of the people"). The Russian Orthodox church was more than happy to align itself with the Whites, correctly seeing the Bolsheviks as a political threat to the power and wealth they enjoyed in Czarist Russian society. The Church was on the losing side of the Russian civil war, and many of the Orthodox clergy -- though nowhere near 200,000 -- were killed. If you want to say that you were off by more than two orders of magnitude, and that the genocide of 40-60 million Christians was actually politically motivated killings of 200,000 Orthodox clergy during the Red Terror, I'm willing to stretch historical truth that far. Anything we can do to bring this ridiculous thread to a close. Martin
you are wearing me down with stupid statements. 200,000 clergy shows intent. i thought we had moved on to intent? no? isn't that what your main concern was.. intent.. the whole genocide definition? now i show intent and you decide to back up and put words in my mouth? come on marlin, you aren't fooling anyone. why are you so scared of the word genocide?