Since one person can vote once as opposed to posting 30 replies in a discussion, lets get a true reading on this subject.
"Benefit" is obviously completely subjective. Furthermore, what a bunch of cocksucker deadbeats on ET think is hardly getting "a read" on anything. My position is that "benefits" aside, the US is 100% doing the right thing by supporting Israel.
its not subjective, u either benefit or not, yes or no. u might be doing the right thing in situations where its not costing u anything, and clearly thats not the case here, is it?
No, I completely disagree. To me it is more important to do the right thing, to stand up for the principles you believe in than to sell out an ally because supporting them has suddenly become a tad inconvenient. What else are you willing to sell out on the moment someone applies a bit of pressure? Is anything sacred?
i am talking in the context of last 50 yrs not the last 2 weeks. has it been beneficial to us? what have we gained in return for billions of dollars of aid sent to israel?
Israel doesn't exist without the US, period. This is not about principles, this is about the influence of a few over the many. No other ally of the size of Israel, who did not have such a powerful minority presence or religious importance to America, would continue to get the support Israel does if they acted the way Israel does. This is not about principles at all, it is about religion, money, and power.
Israel plays a very important role in shaping a democratic, market-oriented Middle East. Yes, all that probably does add up, in the long run, to "money and power" (muhaahahah) for the US. So be it. That is surely a preferable set of circumstances to the miserable lives today's Arabs lead. Adopting some "European" approach to Israel is nothing less than abandoning Israel to the whim of the most unreasonable, irrational people in the history of the world, the Arabs. Sheer lunacy.
Well, if 'benefit' is 'subjective', then your 'right thing' is even more so. To me it's neither beneficial to the majority of Americans nor is it right. But you know what, your response is so typical: since you cannot justify this 'benefit', you resort to moral arguments. All this spreading of democracy and freedom belongs to the same category as doing the 'right thing'. It's the category called hypocrisy because the only thing the US is really spreading is its military bases and not democracy or freedom or much less so the right thing that is so subjective that it probably cannot be even properly defined. Democracy and freedom are only used as disguise to do so and I find it truly repugnant. If the US goverment simply said: 'all we care is our interests' that would be fine with me. I would have no problem with that, but pretending that the US is doing it to further democracy or freedom is an insult to my intelligence, plain and simple.
But democracy -- specifically free-market democracy -- is absolutely in the US's interests. I can hardly think of anything that would benefit her interests more. Otherwise, ultimately, what possible use are the military bases? I mean, do you think they'll become the bases from which to plunder the country, at gunpoint, pre-20th century 'colonial' style? Possibly, but that is obviously not the case today and I think it borders on the delusional to think it will be.