Wow. LOL. "shitstain" and "nobility" in the same sentence. That is just waaaay too funny for words. JB
As I said before, I'm not trying to get into Jew-bashing. But I am not sure what part of my statement you object to. My purely personal impression is that Jews, particularly liberal, wealthy , politically active Jews, have an enormous antipathy for Evangelical Christians. Look at the ACLU, which is certainly disproportionately Jewish. Every time I turn around they are suing some school district or city over a religious issue, typically involving public observation of Christian traditions. Maybe a lot of it is more class-based than purely religious bigotry , but the fact remains that a lot of Jews seem to regard Christian evangelism as offensive and out of bounds. You also are ignoring the other part of my statement, namely that Evangelicals are the biggest supporters of Israel. That is based on Old Testament doctrine that God will favor those who favor Israel and the notion that the Jewish people are God's chosen people. Again, I am not trying to attack modern Jews but I do find the situation moderately ironic.
Only a small (but loud) minority of American Jews behave this way. I think the vast majority of Americans of Jewish ethnicity groan with shame and contempt whenever some asshole tries to get Christmas trees removed from public places. I know I do.
LOL, why am I not surprised. The jews are simultaneously responsible for the ACLU which is disproportionately jewish and for the Neocon movement which is also disproportionately jewish, they are simultaneously responsible for the war in Iraq (Israel, neocons, Richard Perle) and for the anti-war movement (ACLU, democrats, left-wing radicals, George Soros). The jews are responsible for Communism (disproportionately jewish) and capitalism (disproportionately jewish), for slavery (disproportionately jewish) and civil rights movement (disproportionately jewish). What else is new, if you hate something rest assured that the Jews are responsible for it. If you hate the jews - find a couple of jews in any movement you hate and blame the entire movement on the Jewish cabal. It's really easy and works like a charm. PS I don't think AAA is anti-semitic but what he is spewing in this thread is 100 times more antisemitic than what Coulter said.
Surely you don't think you can make a blanket statement like "The biggest enemy of Christians are Jews' and then wonder what part of that people will object to. Actually, Christian evangelism is offensive to the vast majority of people. For you to say that it is Jews that are somehow leading the fight against it is misleading at the very best. With regard to your assertion that there is some correlation between the religious makeup of ACLU members and their battles against religious zealotry, I can only say that you may not have considered the question in a scientific manner. It seems to be only your opinion that this link exists, because it is assertion and happens to be dead wrong. Perhaps you are a fundamentalist Christian (I have no idea) and therefore cannot understand that the mandate of the ACLU is to fight for civil liberties and a part of that battle is the fight for secularism in public education. If there are Jewish ACLU members (and I can assure you that the majority of ACLU members are not Jewish), that fact does not imply a correlation between Jewishness and anti-Christian thought. This seems pretty straight ahead to me. As always, I have to disclaim any love for the left-wing nutcases who want to ban Christmas. I am on record voicing my opinion that those who want to ban Xmas are the same type as those who want to emigrate to the West, gain citizenship and then govern themselves according to Sharia law. Again, I have seen no evidence that Jews as a group are anti-Christian. I have no problem believing that Jews as a group are anti-Evangelical Christian, since Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, pagans, and Flat-Earthers are similarly positioned. After all, what's not to be against? Here's what you said "I find it highly ironic that the biggest supporters of Israel in this country are Evangelical Christians, yet the biggest foes of Christians... are Jews, particularly politically active liberal Jews." Note that you did not include the word 'Evangelical' in the second part of that sentence. Freudian slip? I give you enough respect to take you at your word. I would say in closing that it's interesting to me that when people engage in anti-semitic speech, they almost always describe the Jews they object to as the 'wealthy' Jews. In my opinion, this is a big part of anti-semitism. People just cannot deal with the fact that such a tiny number of people can accumulate such disproportionate wealth. They must be evil, right? I'm not saying I know you're an anti-semite, AAA. Just that what you're saying sounds anti-semitic.
For the first time in your god damn life you make sense dddooo! You are right. Anyone, from any side, who wants to blame Jews will not have a hard time finding one. If you are talking about the ones who "happened" to be Jews who promoted the Iraqi war, I have never ever looked at them as Jews but rather zionists. As you are aware, there are Christian and Muslim, including, Arab zionists. It is unfortunate that you do not see the difference and end up feeding the same anti sematic frenzy by you yourself mentioning the Jews in the above example you gave. In my eyes, Neo conservative are Neo conservatives until they indicate that they subscribe to the zionist ideology. In regard to communists, liberals, or the oxymoron term "left wing radicals"; I see them as communists, liberals and left wing activists without attaching a religion to them.
Nice. You accuse me of making anti-semitic statements because I (a) defend Ann Coulter against attacks by Jewish groups and (2) point out that Jewish-dominated groups like the ACLU are in the forefront of attacks on Christian traditions. At the same time, you apparently see nothing wrong in mocking Evangelical Christians, writing that it is "offensive to the vast majority of people." Where's your proof for that? You may not be an anti-Christian religious bigot, you just write things that make you sound like one.
Wow, you're not at your best this week, AAA. Of course the whole point is that the statement "Jewish-dominated groups like the ACLU are in the forefront of attacks on Christian traditions" is a blatant smear which has no basis in truth. It's telling that you don't even try to defend that statement or provide any proof whatsoever. In fact there is no proof for it, because it's a pile of horseshit. Instead you attack me for stating that the majority are against Christian zealotry. If I were to say that the majority is against Muslim zealotry (which of course they are), that would be fine with you, wouldn't it? Asking me to prove that the majority are against Evangelical Christian zealots is akin to asking me to prove that the majority are against Muslim Fundamentalist zealots. It is a truism. We are all against Christian nutbags who are so brainwashed, they insist on getting in my face and telling me that if I don't accept their ghosts-and-goblins story as the truth, I will burn in a lake of fire and brimstone for eternity. We all understand that Christian Evangelicals that tell me that I will burn in hell if I don't accept Jesus Christ as my personal lord and saviour are not quite as bad as those Muslim whack-jobs who say that if I draw a cartoon depicting their prophet, they can hack my head off with a blunt knife and ensure their own sanctification. Only the very worst would argue against any of this. I know you're not among them. Also, it's pretty weak that I make sure to specify 'Evangelical Christians' and you then conveniently ignore the distinction and accuse me of being anti-all-Christians. This is intellectual dishonesty pure and simple. Once again, I am a bit surprised that it's coming from you. Disappointed as well. I expect this type of thing from the Disgusting Troll. You're over-the-top defensive reaction, when I specifically said that I didn't think you were an anti-Semite, is demoralizing. Finally, you choose to attack me when others have posted the exact same thing in this very thread. Now why would that be? Ann is laughing all the way to the bank... again.
This is a democracy? Heaven help us when they come for us. ----------------------------- A NEW ISRAELI STUDY CONFIRMS OUR WORST FEARS : On the academic research of Psychologist Nofer Ishai-Karen and Psychology Prof. Joel Elitzur, Dalia Karpel shortened translation of article in Haaretz `Hamedovevet` 21.09.07 http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/spages/905287.htm `We - Israeli Soldiers - were put there to punish the Palestinians`, says Ilan Vilenda, an Israeli soldier who served in Rafah during the first Intifada. Ilan is the only soldier of 21 who agreed to have his name published, after he was interviewed by psychologist Nofer Ishai-Karen. The soldiers spoke freely to Nofer, who served with them in the same ASHBAL platoon 20 years ago; They disclosing their innermost emotions about the horrendous crimes, in which they took part: Murder, breaking bones of Palestinian children, actions of humiliation, destruction of property, robbery and theft. Soldier `A` testimony: `We decided to turn an old shower in our base to a make-shift detention cell. A Palestinian was brought there, handcuffed and mouth banded so he couldn`t talk, or move. We `forgot him there for three days`... Soldier `B` testimony: `I was on my first patrol. Others simply shot like mad. I started to shoot as they did. They `set my on`. I took my weapon and shot. Nobody was there to tell me otherwise` -- Psychologist Ishai-Karen was shocked to find that the soldiers enjoyed the `intoxication of power`, and had pleasure from using violence. She said: `Most of my interviewees enjoyed their own instigated violence during their Occupation service``. Soldier `C` testimony: `The truth is that I love this mess - I enjoy it. It is like being on drugs. If I didn`t enter Rafah, to put down some rebellion -at least once a week- I`d go berserk. Soldier `D` testimony: What is great is that you don`t have to follow any law or rule. You feel that YOU ARE THE LAW; you decide. Once you go into the Occupied Territories YOU ARE GOD`. Emotional dumbness Soldier `E` testimony: We drove an APC through Rafah. A man of 25 walked nearby. He didn`t hurl a stone at us or anything. Then without any reason `X` shot him in the stomach. We left him lying on the sidewalk`. Soldier `F` testimony: Some `tough guys` developed it into `an ideology`, according to which we have to react brutally even for minor events. A woman threw a sandal at me. I kicked her with my foot at her crotch. I broke her. She can`t have children any longer. Next time she won`t throw sandals at me... and when another woman spat at me she got the butt of my gun in her face. She can`t spit now. Soldier `G` described his first forced entry to a home to detain a Palestinian: `He was real big, some 30 years old. He refused detention. We hit him but couldn`t force him down. Some people came hurling stones at us. We beat him and told him to lie down. Till he finally did. We drove to the base with him. By that time he had lost consciousness. He died some days later`. Nofer Ishai-Karen: `Some NCOs encouraged the soldiers to behave brutally, and provided their own example. Soldier `H` testimony: After two months in Rafah a new NCO commander arrived. The first patrol, which he commanded, was at 06 hours. Rafah was under curfew. Not a soul was on the street. Then he saw a young boy, of about 4, playing in the sand in the courtyard of his home. The kid was building a castle in the sand. Suddenly the NCO, a guy from the Engineers Corps, ran to chase the kid. We followed. He captured the kid and broke his elbow. Broke the kid`s elbow! Damn me if I`m not telling the truth! Then the NCO treaded on the kid`s stomach three times, before he moved on. We couldn`t believe our eyes... But the next day we went on patrol with that guy and the soldiers started to imitate him... What happened then? Some guys couldn`t stomach it. The case of severe abuse of three young adolescents, who were bounded hand and foot by a staff sergeant, got them to alert a senior officer. `When the medic arrived the boys were bleeding all over, their clothes were soaked with blood, and they were shivering from fear. They were made to kneel like dogs and were afraid to move`. The NCO was punished by 3 months detention. But the platoon commander backed the NCO and reprimanded the conscientious soldiers for `defaming the platoon`.` Nofer Ishai-Karen: The sacred value in the [Israeli] Army is `fighters` solidarity`, i.e., loyalty towards your fellow combatants. The platoons protected its secrets, as a family defends its `black sheep`. The fellows regard as `traitors` the conscientious soldiers, says Nofer Ishai-Karen. The cover-up was complete when our `good guy` was excommunicated and ostracized by the entire platoon. And the NCO? He left the country, and now lives in the U.S. of A. The majority of the soldiers of these platoons had left Israel. Only five or six remain in Israel. Nofer studied two platoons ESHBAL and ESHKHAR, the last was more extremely violent, she says. Finally back to Ilan Vilenda, the only soldier who allowed Nofer to use his full name and even be photographed. Vilenda was a staff sergeant in charge of `operations`. ILAN` VILENDA`S testimony: `Our job was to beat them... I personally hit a boy and another. I used my hands or the truncheon. We beat more severely [Palestinian] adults. We acted like policemen but we acted outside the law. There was this Palestinian who had a TV at home. The World Cup in Soccer was on, and we used to invade his privacy to watch the games. After a while he had enough, and asked us take the TV set and move. `I was born on a Kibbutz, to a family whose values were humane `Zionist left wing`. The Palestinians threw tons of stones at us. Whereas at the beginning my ideological commitment restrained my actions, my anger accumulated, and I released it violently. It was meant to be. We were there `to make them [Palestinians] pay. My political views changed too. I now support the extreme-right-religious National-Religious Party. After his release from the army, Vilenda and 5 other Israelis were arrested in Goa, India for possession of LSD. `I wanted to serve my country. This was my task... but the entire IDF is executing illegal-orders. Who is responsible? General Matan Vilna`i [now serving under Ehud Barak as vice Minister of Defense] was at the time [during the FIRST INTIFADA] Chief of the IDF Southern Command. He often visited our platoon and discussed with soldiers, says Nofer But... there you go... the `Instruments of DENIAL and CONCEALMENT` went to work...` Besides: The Israeli Army didn`t provide the unit with regular training, not were the soldiers given regular leaves, or provided with free time to recuperate and recover. The interviewed soldiers maintained that the longer they operated [against the Palestinians in Rafah] without leave, the more violent they became in imposing their kind of `Law and Order`. They claimed `Army [commanders] were aware of the erosion towards violence, and encouraged it in order to save manpower`. NOTES: General Matan Vilna`i must have known what happened. High-ranking officers who served on the Occupied West Bank had voiced similar warnings against Israeli Army behavior. `The orders left a wide gap, a margin... of intentionally un-specified `grey zone`, which encouraged violent behavior of soldiers`, said Reserve Colonel Elisha Shapira, who served in the Nablus Area at the same time. Soldiers were told `don`t hit Palestinians - but bring them to interrogation `swell-headed` - blown-up`. The events, which Nofer Ishai-Karen researched, happened some 17 years ago. The situation has further deteriorated since that time. Now Israeli Army and Air Force General openly take pride in acts of revenge against Palestinian civilians. Maj-Gen Eliezer Shkeidi took pride in announcing that his pilots break the sound barrier over Gaza, producing sonic booms. These cause severe PTSD symptoms among young children; they have also caused miscarriages among pregnant women. The indiscriminate shelling of Palestinian homes had caused many deaths lately, including many children. Perhaps last but not least: The Israeli cabinet, backed by Washington, said it would disrupt power and fuel supply to Gaza. [1] This is an abbreviated translation of an article by Dalia Karpel titled HAMEDOVEVET [=the one who makes people talk]. The article appeared on the Hebrew Weekend Supplement, on 21 September 2007. It is based on academic research, which Nofer Ishai-Karen and Psychology Prof. Joel Elizur, of the Hebrew University published in ALPAYIM Magazine Vol. 31. [2] The article was not translated to English and thus did NOT appear in Haaretz English Language edition. [3] Psychology Prof. Joel Elizur, of the Hebrew University, who guided Nofer Ishai-Karen in her Master`s thesis, served in the reserves in the Mental Health Department of the Israeli Army. But the IDF wouldn`t allow him to research into Israeli Soldiers` violence. The researchers hold the interview raw audio material. [4] To my best knowledge the Israeli Army hasn`t either charged a single case of abuse or murder by soldiers of Palestinians in proper court. RH