777, i will never tell you that you can't believe what you want. all i try to do here is explain why my beliefs are so logical, simple, and yet still work! it is SO EASY to find problems with religion. ok, i'm stopping here because this isn't what i wanted to get back into...... i would really like you to answer ONE SPECIFIC QUESTION: how did you decide to believe your current religion of all the possible beliefs? how can you POSSIBLY decide on one religion if you can't prove it?!! i would like to know, SPECIFICALLY, why you believe jesus christ is god (if you do) and why you don't believe I am your god!!!!! let's hear it!
btw, this answers aphie's question, too. for the record, i did state i don't say there isn't. i just say i "don't know." anyway, here is how we can get into WHY PROOF IS NEEDED. if i were to say i'm your god, of course you would say, "hell no!" but if you can't prove me wrong (which is what you religious people always say), it becomes just a never ending loop. BUT, if we now throw in PROOF as a factor, we can eliminate my nonsense claim that i am your god! we then begin to weed out all the bs claims and actually make progress. SO FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME, WILL YOU RELIGIOUS PEOPLE QUIT IT WITH THE NONSENSE THAT SINCE WE CAN'T PROVE YOU WRONG, YOU STILL MAKE SENSE!!! NO, YOU DON'T!!!!!!
Those who believe in "God" do not need proof and for those who do not believe, they will never have enough proof.
so tell me: 1)who/what is your god? 2)how did you decide to believe in that over something else? p.s. "...those who do not believe, they will never have enough proof." how about just any proof at all?
Out of all the available women in the world, how could a man possibly pick and marry just one and commit himself to her for his entire life? How would he ever know he picked the "right" woman? The answer to your question concerning God is in the love you feel for your beloved. That you feel no love in your heart for God, is in your hands. If you want to feel God's love, you have to open up your heart first.
Sigh. This statement is itself illogical. Theists don't have to "throw out science" at all because God's existence, or lack thereof, is not a question of science. Science is based on empirical observations of cause and effect within a closed system. By definition God transcends this closed system, and thus science is unable to render a verdict on whether He is there or not. Imagine if Charlie Brown and Lucy are debating whether there are more than two dimensions, or whether or not an animator exists. Without stepping out of their two dimensional world, what 'conclusive scientific evidence' would either side be able to offer up? None. They could make persuasive arguments for and against, but the question would be left open ended. The debate regarding God's existence, or lack thereof, is primarily philosophical. Instances of science and various observable phenomena are used to make a case by both sides, but neither has an armlock on the evidence available. Which is just as it should be, because intellectual consent is an act of will, and the quality of an argument often has no bearing on whether or not it is accepted. (Side note: logical positivism was/is an attempt by empiricists to essentially discredit metaphysics and make the whole debate over God off limits, saying that the only questions that are important, or indeed allowed to be asked at all, are the ones that science has domain over. If you want to limit yourself to falsifiable questions and pretend the universe is wholly confined to labs and textbooks, fine. But since when do scientists get to decide what the really important questions are in the first place, let alone what criteria the answers are supposed to fit? We only need look to Nazi Germany to see the horrors of science unleashed with no moral compass to guide it, and you know where questions of morality lead...) This argument is so old and tired! If you were a rapper you would be quoting Run DMC. First of all, let me say that I feel a little embarrassed for you here because you are obviously so uninformed on this topic. You continue to act as if all religious people are stupid and foolish, which I think reflects a combination of immaturity and naivete on your part. Every time you insult your opponent's intelligence by saying something lame like "you believe what you're told" or "you're brainwashed," you demonstrate a lack of ability to say something more cogent to make your case. Now, going back to the question as to why choose Christianity over some "other" religion. My short answer is this: go to your local Barnes & Noble and thumb through a copy of "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis (I'm sure they'll have a copy on hand). There are a few pages in there where he gives a concise answer as to why Christianity ties together philosophically in a way that all other religions of the world do not. I could reproduce the argument here, but I'm curious to see if you'll actually take the trouble to schlep down to your local book store and thumb through a few pages of the opposition's thought, seeing as how you've developed such a zealous hostility to Christ. Why the all caps? You almost sound like a religious fanatic. I really am curious as to why you get so hopping mad about this. In fact, it's a point of curiosity for me as to why atheists really give a damn about anything beyond the borders of hedonism. If we're all headed for random oblivion and nothingness as you believe, it's only a matter of time before nothing matters. So why do you care? (I think you care because you were built to care, which demonstrates an inherent purpose and drive within the created being that is man, but that's another kettle o' fish.) How can you say "religious people don't make sense" just because you don't accept their arguments? You see no reason for believing in God. Fine. I see no reason for being an atheist. Does that mean I should shout at you in all caps and say that you don't make any sense? Have you ever looked at one of those 3D pictures in the mall? The ones that look like an explosion of random patterns and colors, but when you look at it more closely an image appears, like a bird or a dolphin or a whale etc. etc. Some people can get those pictures to work in a few seconds. Others can stare at them for ten hours straight and not see a thing. I think there was a movie out a couple years ago, mall rats or something, where the guy stared at the thing the whole movie and finally saw it at the end. Now imagine the entire world as a 3D picture, with God- and loving devotion to God- as the image inside the picture, the "order and purpose" hidden within the "random bullshit." Some people will "see" the hidden order and purpose immediately. Others will see it after a lifelong journey. Some will never see it. Some won't be bothered to ever look. (Note: this analogy is flawed in the sense that unlike a 3D picture, God doesn't just sit there- he actively intervenes within the closed system, akin to the picture interacting with the observer.) But anyway, for you to say "religious people don't make sense" just because they can't let you see through their eyes or grasp the nuances of their arguments is just plumb dumb. People have plenty of reasons, both philosophical and otherwise, for believing in God. Many books have been written by brilliant men outlining the case for their faith. This doesn't mean you have to agree with their reasons. But to say they "don't make sense" when you are so topically ignorant shows a lack of understanding regarding the subject matter you are so oddly passionate about. p.s. is this what you wanted Aphie? LOL
Sigh. no need to apologize, horse! my beliefs are ROCK SOLID and you're just a little frustrated because yours are as solid as a SPONGE! i don't have time to really reply to all that right now, but i will later. Gordon Einstein p.s. we may disagree on this, but i still like ya, horse.
Once I accepted that I had no clue about why I am here, I felt a lot better! "I do not know" is a totally acceptable answer.....as it is the truth.
The whole point of "faith" is understanding that some things are just unknowable to logic and science. You make the leap and you believe in whatever helps you to deal with loss in life.