"Universality" of your trading system?

Discussion in 'Strategy Building' started by gmailer, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. Not true IMO. If a system works only for one ticker it is probably due to selection bias.
     
    #11     Mar 13, 2012
  2. Must work at least on 2 -3 different markets. Systems that work in only one market can be the outcome of

    Curve-fitting
    Data mining bias
    Survivorship bias
    Data snooping bias

    See above.

    You should worry. It is a sign of some problem. See above.

    I had similar questions when I purchased PAL. I asked the developer to provide an option for the program to search for patterns that test profitable on several markets. They provided that and after running again my previous searches I found out that the results tested better in OOS. Now I only use patterns that are profitable on at least 2 different markets. This doesn't completely fix all problems but it is a step forward. Here are some examples for fx and etfs from their website so you can get an idea.
     
    #12     Mar 13, 2012
  3. gmailer

    gmailer

    |

    We are talking about system that did not have parameters changed. It was like "break above HighestHigh of 100 periods". Tested on many markets and works great on EUR/USD...a little bit on USD/JPY and completely sucks.

    I use very long periods although it is on 1h charts. This way during 8 years it had like 80 trades only. My assumption is that fewer trades system makes the less likely it is to be dependent on optimization.

    Ok. So we have conflicting comments here? Some claim I should not worry, some claim I should worry that system does not work on all markets(as I wrote - with the same parameters for all, in each case. I did not check if it would work on other pairs if I change anything)
     
    #13     Mar 14, 2012
  4. jcl

    jcl

    Here's a simple trick to check if the EUR/USD system indeed has an edge that only works with this currency pair. Trade the same system with the inverse price curve (USD/EUR). It should then also be profitable. If you instead get a very different result, you should probably worry.
     
    #14     Mar 14, 2012
  5. gmst

    gmst

    Interesting test you propose.
    My question is - if a system works on price series P[t], why should it work on 1/P[t] ?

    What is the logic behind your assertion ? Can you prove it mathematically/logically/rationally/conceptually ?

    Thanks a lot.
     
    #15     Mar 14, 2012
  6. jcl

    jcl

    Consider a symmetrical system, with an algo such as you described:

    "break above HighestHigh of 100 periods"
    "break below LowestLow of 100 periods"

    This system would break both on p and 1/p.
     
    #16     Mar 14, 2012
  7. gmailer

    gmailer

    That was example....in reality it makes EXIT on different condition - although as simple as in example. So for example Enter when break above HighestHigh100 and Exit below LowestLow100(from X periods ago, Ref function). So it is not true and complete REVERSAL as I sometimes have periods of "out of market" condition.
     
    #17     Mar 14, 2012
  8. jcl

    jcl

    It's not necessary for a symmetric system to be always in the market, but it needs to trade long and short under the same conditions.

    Strategies exploit market ineffectivities, such as trends or cycles. Trends and cycles are invariant under a 1/p transformation. Therefore a profitable strategy, if it is symmetrical in long and short trades and does not prefer a certain trend direction, should be still profitable on the inverse currency.

    Another method, aside from inversing the prices, would be resampling them to generate slightly different bars. A profitable strategy must then also stay profitable. This also works when your system only places long trades. Such methods are not a sufficient, but normally a necessary condition for profitability of a strategy.
     
    #18     Mar 14, 2012
  9. ATTENTION ATTENTION INVESTORS IN AAPL:

    JCL JUST DECLARED THE TREND IN AAPL A MARKET INEFFECTIVITY.

    It is not the ipad, the iphone and the millions of users worldwide. It is a market ineffectivity that causes the trend.

    This must be the most hillarious and idiotic statement that was ever posted in ET.

    Market ineffectivity? What the hell is that?
     
    #19     Mar 14, 2012
  10. jcl

    jcl

    All technical trade systems are based on market inefficiencies. They are the very reason why a strategy can beat the market. There's an ongoing discussion among economists about in which degree the markets are efficient or inefficient. For some basics, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient-market_hypothesis
     
    #20     Mar 14, 2012